Is Hocker seriously not going to back up his statement on Kerley?

EXACLTY.

800 RUNNERS.

Not 1500/5000 runners.

Get it?

Do you know who this thread is about? Pay attention: Cole Hocker, who is near the 1500 WR and is elite in the 5000, is not remotely an elite 800 runner. 1:45.6.

Do you see think the guys on that list are better in the 400, or the 1500/5000?🤣🤡

You seem knowledgeable, and cannot truly be this thick.

If you think that Cole Hocker, 1:45/3:27/12:58 is a middle distance runner in the same sense of Johnny Gray, 1:12/1:42/3:42, you are just discrediting yourself here.

I don't think you really believe that.

They could not be more different.

I'll give you a half point for every 1500/mile performance by Gray you can show me after his debut which you posted (a race five years after his 800 WR).

I bet you won't clear 2 points.

The fact he only debuted in the 1500 at the age of 30 should tell you something about how relevant mile ability was to his 800 WR at 25.

At least we agree on some things! Hocker looking weak if he can't step to a 200-pound 100m man over 600m in the offseaon.

Look, I'm not saying a 100/200/400 man like Fred or even Wayde is the perfect prospect for the 600. They are not.

A pure 800 guy is the best 600 prospect. And most pure 800 guys are a lot better in the 400 than they are at the mile. Rudisha, Korir, Amos, Brazier, all pure 800 guys but very fast in the 400. Not the mile.

But Hocker could not be further from this model. You know how you can tell? BECAUSE HOCKER IS NOT FAST IN THE 800. His 800 is much worse than his 1500, and his 600 will be worse still.

Meanwhile, Kerley's 400 PB is by far more impressive than his 200 or 100.

Start by finding me even ONE MORE PERFORMANCE by Gray in the 1500/mile. ONE MORE.

He doesn't even have a mark listed at World Athletics, ffs.

Then talk to me about how 1:42/3:42 Gray holding the 600 WR somehow suggests to you that 1:45/3:27 Hocker will be good in the 600.

THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS RUNNERS. THEY COULD NOT BE MORE DIFFERENT. CAN YOU TELL HOW THEY ARE DIFFERENT?

Here's a hint about the difference:

One of them was great in the 800 and never ran a fast 1500/mile, in fact barely racing it at all and for good reason. The other is great in the 1500/mile and relatively stinks in the 800.😆

I never said Cole and Gray are the same type of middle distance runners.

I said the 600m is a middle distance race, and I said the world record holder for 600m is a middle distance runner, who looked and trained like a middle distance runner. From all reports Gary trained more like a miler.

I also said the 600m is not a sprint. The world record for 600m is 48 second 400m pace, 24 seconds for 200m pace, and 12 seconds for 100m pace. It’s not sprinting, even world record pace.

My point is that what makes a middle distance runner a middle distance runner is their ability to run relaxed at paces a couple to a few seconds slower than their 400m sprinting speed and hold it for 1-4 minutes. It’s a fast pace, but they are not sprinting.

I’m still waiting for you to post a single world class time for 600m or longer by a guy over 200 pounds.

5 pages of pony tail madness.

Your take would define the 400m as not a sprint. It is "sub maximum" running. Yet clearly it is dominated by sprinters. It's a sprint.

As I said before, anyone who ran indoor track back in the day knows that the 440 yd guys dominated the 600 yd race, not the 1/2 milers or milers.

Hope they race. Kerley for the win

Rather than basing your conclusion on a personal experience that happened 50 years ago, why don’t you Google the definition of sprinting in exercise psychology and learn about the physiological processes involved in sprinting and how than differ from middle distance running.

Report back what you learn.

You did earn half a point for questioning whether 400m running is sprinting. That’s a debate worth having.

600m though is not open for debate. It’s not a sprint at all.

Yeah. Basing an opinion on actual experience. How insane. Makes more sense to listen to a guy who thinks the 400m is not a sprint.

I never said the 400m is not a sprint. I said it’s a debatable issue:

I did say the 600m is not a sprint. You can quote me on that.

Who dominates the 400m? Sprinters or middle distance guys who can run world class miles?

600m may or may not be a sprint but will be won by a world class 400m guy over a world class miler who is not a world class 800k runner.

I would say Hocker is a 1:17 600m guy at best. Kerley is a 1:14 guy maybe faster!

They need to race at 600m now.

Letsrun must resolve this

I'm still waiting for you to post a single world class time for 600m or less by a guy under 130 pounds.

Sir.

You lost here as soon as you drew inference from Johnny Gray to Cole Hocker.

The success of a pure 800 specialist in the 600 has zero relevance to expected performance by a 1500/5000 runner, who we already know is much worse in the 800 than the 1500. (Whereas Gray's 800 was of course much better than his mile, which he raced...once?)

HOCKER IS MORE LIKELY TO RUN A WORLD-CLASS 10,000 THAN A WORLD-CLASS 800.

This is beyond obvious.

Correct.

The idea that anything but utter maximal effort isn't sprinting is just WRONG.

The 400, 200m and even the 100m aren't run like that at the elite level. And they are all sprints.

No List saying the 400m is not a sprint really took this discussion to the next level.

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

CORRECT.

Hocker's 600 will stink even more than his 800 (relative to his brilliant mile ability).

To put Johnny Gray and Cole Hocker in the same category, an overbroad "middle distance"... shows pure ignorance.

For No List to saying that 800 runners dominate the 600 only proves how useless Hocker will be. But he and No List think the 600 is about "distance running strength."

Laughable.

Still waiting.

YOU said that Gray's success was auspicious for Hocker's chances, even though Gray barely raced the mile (and Hocker is only useful at the world stage in the mile and longer).