Did Prefontaine ever win a race internationally?

Heimlich wrote:

Oh, and guess what, I live in Atlanta and see that John Tuttle still runs and actually wins (at age 47) several local road races around here. I will ask him personally if he felt it was a "slap in the face" that Pre dropped out of that 6mile race all those years ago. I will let you know what he has to say about that.

(My prediction: John Tuttle: "what?? of course not, I was just glad I won and beat some big names."

But we will see if I am wrong about that prediction).

I expect John Tuttle would say, "What?" given that it was Gary Tuttle who one the race that's being discussed here.

That should read "won" the race.

Ok, yes, you got me on that one, i certainly F'd THAT one up! We all have our brain-dead moments.

What would John Tuttle have been.........16 back when that race occured?

My bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But all i know is that Pre stomped Bedford in the biggest race the two ever had against each other.

Again, HRE, you said it much better than I could have. No one can doubt your attention to detail. By the way, I'm taking your advice on how to deal with the moronic trolls on here.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

Again, HRE, you said it much better than I could have. No one can doubt your attention to detail. By the way, I'm taking your advice on how to deal with the moronic trolls on here.

WHAT?!?! What did HRE say so well??? He corrected me on a mistake I made, that's all.

Now I find it very interesting that suddenly you are shutting up (thank god) as soon as.....

a) Dave Bedford's abysmal performances in big track races have been highlighted here for all to see, and

b) that Pre's demolition of Bedford in the 72 Olympics is front and center for anyone who somehow did not know about it.

c) proof has been given the Pre beat SEVERAL super-elites in big races

"Moronic trolls" ? Now THAT is certainly calling the kettle black.

CraigMac4H (Forgot to sign in) wrote:

In Europe, however, he had to contend with guys like Brendan Foster or Bedford or Yifter or Dixon or any of the other guys who beat him often over there. When he did race them, he'd run faster than any American has ever run before, yet still lose. That to me speaks more to the caliber of competition than any of Pre's supposed failings.

I don't recall Pre running vs. Foster, Quax or Dixon in a European race of over a mile.

The guys he had trouble with were Norpoth, Puttemans and Kvailheim in some notable races.

Heimlich wrote:

Now I find it very interesting that suddenly you are shutting up (thank god) as soon as.....

a) Dave Bedford's abysmal performances in big track races have been highlighted here for all to see, and

b) that Pre's demolition of Bedford in the 72 Olympics is front and center for anyone who somehow did not know about it.

In fairness to Bedford's performance in the Munich 5000m, he had already run the 10,000 heats and final.

you have still yet to answer me...

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

Again, HRE, you said it much better than I could have. No one can doubt your attention to detail. By the way, I'm taking your advice on how to deal with the moronic trolls on here.

Wow...yet another gold-plated hypocrite in our midst!

Davebedfordwannabe, how can you have the AUDACITY to call other people "trolls" when you went out of your way to create a topic that was antagonistic & manipulative?!? LoL! That's like Ben Johnson calling Barry Bonds a cheater!!

How did that cliché go again?

Cliché wrote:

If Dave is going to be coming onto the message boards intentionally trying to start up an argument with his little mind games, he had better be willing to accept the negative reaction that comes along with it!

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

I was using the Platonic method to help Pre worshipers arrive at the answer to whether Pre was as good as the best of his era.

The "platonic" method? Is that anything like the Socratic method?

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

I'm taking your advice on how to deal with the moronic trolls on here.

OMG, the irony of it all! You're the very LAST person in this thread who should be labeling somebody a troll, Dave!!

You should do some additional research...

so what, the 10k guys got an extra days break didn\'t they? and viren did the same thing and look what he did

Gary Katz wrote:

Heimlich wrote:

Now I find it very interesting that suddenly you are shutting up (thank god) as soon as.....

a) Dave Bedford\'s abysmal performances in big track races have been highlighted here for all to see, and

b) that Pre\'s demolition of Bedford in the 72 Olympics is front and center for anyone who somehow did not know about it.

In fairness to Bedford\'s performance in the Munich 5000m, he had already run the 10,000 heats and final.

I also think it's funny how people seem to be turning this into a Bedford/Prefontaine debate.

When you look at it, they were both pretty similar- both hated to leave races to a kick, both were incredibly tough, both were kind of jerks, and both were at their best most often in their home country.

Not alot of people know this, but Bedford was the guy who, in the 1972 Olympic 10K final that Viren fell and heroically won and set a world record in, rabbited the entire field. He knew he didn't have a 53.point last lap in him- he took an early lead and the first 400 meters was in 58 seconds. Remember, that's in a 10k.

Continuing this plan, Bedford towed the entire field in the 10k final well under world record pace at 1000 meters. The first 2000 meters of the 10,000 was faster than the first 2,000 meters of the 5,000 several days later. Despite this incredible effort, Bedford placed either 7th or 8th (forget which).

To me, that sort of effort is right on par with Prefontaine's 5K in Munich. Both knew they couldn't outsprint Viren or Gammoudi. Both tried to neutralize the kicks with extremely bold tactics- Pre with his huge move with 1600 to go and 4:04 last mile, Bedford with his suicidal opening 3000 meters. Both ultimately failed to clinch victory, but the Olympic motto reminds us that it isn't conquering that matters but "fighting well." Both men certainly did fight well in the 1972 Olympics. Both were strong, outspoken men.

Why do we have to argue over which one is better? Both are pretty inspirational, I think. Both are impressive. What's the point in everybody pointing fingers at everybody else?

Forgot to mention:

Gary Katz: If Pre didn't race the guys I mentioned, that's my mistake. I thought I remembered reading about Dixon outsprinting Pre in a two-mile in Europe with both of them setting national records. If not, my bad.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

I was using the Platonic method to help Pre worshipers arrive at the answer to whether Pre was as good as the best of his era.

dialectic wrote:

The "platonic" method? Is that anything like the Socratic method?

Or the maieutic method?

CraigMac4h (forgot again) wrote:

Continuing this plan, Bedford towed the entire field in the 10k final well under world record pace at 1000 meters. The first 2000 meters of the 10,000 was faster than the first 2,000 meters of the 5,000 several days later. Despite this incredible effort, Bedford placed either 7th or 8th (forget which).

Bedford finished 6th in the 10000m in Munich. Seems to me he ran a pretty fast heat also.

CraigMac4h (forgot again) wrote:

Forgot to mention:

Gary Katz: If Pre didn't race the guys I mentioned, that's my mistake. I thought I remembered reading about Dixon outsprinting Pre in a two-mile in Europe with both of them setting national records. If not, my bad.

That does sound familiar so maybe they did race.

[quote]hrunner wrote:

so what, the 10k guys got an extra days break didn't they? and viren did the same thing and look what he did

[quote]

So your blaming Bedford for not being Viren?

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

Hi, everyone. I'm a relative newbie on this board, but ....

But I was thinking that maybe he won some races in Europe along the way before he died.

So, I was just wondering, could any of you ardent fans out there please provide a list of Prefontaine's victories on the track in major European meets. (Surely there were some, right?)

Dave, I'm pretty sure this question was answered several times over without you responding or acknowledging it.

I'll ask the question I asked before.

How's the underside of that bridge???