Viren was probably in 13:10 shape that day and Pre wasn’t going to beat him in any scenario. Viren ran the same race anyway, and just had more left in the tank for the last lap.
You obviously didn't see the race. You were probably not born then.
If he had had your racing acumen, what would he have done? Of course, he could have pushed the pace from further out, or even the entire way, but in Europe, he always got out kicked when he did so.
Well one of the reasons that so many elite runners believe that they are not that talented, and I felt this way myself, is that it takes hard work to become elite, and there is almost always someone who is better than you, and even in the rare case when there is not, you know how hard some of your workouts are, and your races, and a part of you feels like you must be pushing yourself harder than they are, because it seems absurd at times to push that hard. So it is very common to think, well, if I really were extraordinarily talented, wouldn’t it come a little easier? So to some extent there can be slightly delusional aspects to this, and then it can also be helpful to minimize one’s talent, because it is immutable, whereas the mental aspect and training etc. appears to be more within the sphere of one’s control, where the focus should generally be anyway.
You obviously didn't see the race. You were probably not born then.
If he had had your racing acumen, what would he have done? Of course, he could have pushed the pace from further out, or even the entire way, but in Europe, he always got out kicked when he did so.
It isn't my "acumen" but the observations of others who saw the race. Prefontaine ran as though he was going to bury a bunch of college athletes. He would surge forward, then drop back and surge again, expending energy and typically running wide of Viren who hugged the pole. In the last lap he sprinted at the beginning of the back straight as though he was nearing the finish line. All of this cost him. I doubt he could have beaten Viren but he could have medalled if he had run with more brains. He left himself with nothing in the home straight and faded to 4th.
Well one of the reasons that so many elite runners believe that they are not that talented, and I felt this way myself, is that it takes hard work to become elite, and there is almost always someone who is better than you, and even in the rare case when there is not, you know how hard some of your workouts are, and your races, and a part of you feels like you must be pushing yourself harder than they are, because it seems absurd at times to push that hard. So it is very common to think, well, if I really were extraordinarily talented, wouldn’t it come a little easier? So to some extent there can be slightly delusional aspects to this, and then it can also be helpful to minimize one’s talent, because it is immutable, whereas the mental aspect and training etc. appears to be more within the sphere of one’s control, where the focus should generally be anyway.
I wouldn't necessarily call it "delusional" but a perspective based on how you compare with those you race against and not those who aren't in the same league. Kerr isn't thinking of the average runner when he is describing his talent; he's likely comparing himself with those he encounters in championship finals.
This quote is proof positive that all runners love to believe they are talented and there is something unique about them that makes them fast.
“I don’t think I have a huge amount of talent,” he says, with no false modesty. “To be honest, I think that the differentiating thing between me and some of my competitors is less the physical talent and more the mental talent. If you can train the mind enough to help you unlock your fitness and allow you to handle the pressures of Olympic Games or world championships, then that makes a big difference.
That being said, my favorite part of the article was this excerpt:
Ben Machell wrote:
He is 26 years old, about the age at which middle-distance runners are judged to have peaked, and there is a weight of expectation, not least from himself, that he will win the 1,500m Olympic gold in Paris. Given the fine margins involved, you feel a stomach-lurching sense of vertigo just thinking about it. Win gold and he could be on everything from Strictly to postage stamps to huge roadside advertising billboards. But if he crosses the line even half a second behind the winner, he could fail to win a medal at all. That’s it. One heartbeat can be the difference between sporting immortality and being the answer to a tricky pub quiz question. “You do 20-odd years of work. But my career is going to be defined in three and a half minutes,” he says, smiling at the weirdness of it. “It’s very difficult to wrap your head around.”
Kerr does not have 2 world records. He holds only 1 world best performance
Delusional is the appropriate word, although I said slightly delusional, and as to your latter point, that is obvious.
Yeah, I would agree that delusional (or slightly delusional) is appropriate. And we can use the word without judgement. The delusion, once again, is that the “mental” is a distinct thing from the “physical.” It’s a productive delusion in all kinds of situations, not least because attributing success to something that feels both within your control and potentially limitless (one’s “mental” state) is an easier pill to swallow than the idea that you are limited by an imperfect body that may or may not be up to this supremely difficult task.
Truly, though, as others point out and as my previous post noted, the so-called “mental” and “physical” realms are co-constitutive. Mental acuity (self-belief, good racing instincts, keeping calm under pressure, etc.) derives from the same things that VO2 max does: namely, the genetic gifts one is born with and one’s experiences (e.g., training and racing successfully over many years. In short, there’s no “mind over matter” here (despite Josh’s subtle suggestion that this might be the case) because the “mind” is made of matter and is conditioned by the same stimuli that sharpen a runner’s other physical gifts.
It's a little rich coming from a guy who only now has quit alcohol, has been known to drink excessively/put on weight in the offseason. Jakob has a significantly better argument that he's not "naturally talented" given his decades of obsessive dedication to the sport. That being said, any athlete who makes the olympics, and especially those who stand to medal in them, are genetic anomalies who have been incredibly lucky to receive the talent they have. They of course also work hard, but come off it.
As Kerr went through the U20/U23 ranks in UK and then USA it seemed that very simply the combo of the times he was running at 1500m, the several extra KGs he was carrying for most of those years, and the relatively (or indeed very) low volume of running he was doing strongly suggested that if he stayed in the sport and got the weight down he would be staggeringly good , and so it has been proved. Jakob has had a hugely different long term trajectory to end up at a very similar place - he won the Euro Senior 5k Champs aged 17 years 11 months. Can't put a number on it but factoring in all the XC skiing he did as a kid he must have several thousand hours of aerobic 'advantage over' Kerr.
Well one of the reasons that so many elite runners believe that they are not that talented, and I felt this way myself, is that it takes hard work to become elite, and there is almost always someone who is better than you, and even in the rare case when there is not, you know how hard some of your workouts are, and your races, and a part of you feels like you must be pushing yourself harder than they are, because it seems absurd at times to push that hard. So it is very common to think, well, if I really were extraordinarily talented, wouldn’t it come a little easier? So to some extent there can be slightly delusional aspects to this, and then it can also be helpful to minimize one’s talent, because it is immutable, whereas the mental aspect and training etc. appears to be more within the sphere of one’s control, where the focus should generally be anyway.
He’s plenty aware of talented he is, don’t be fooled. This is the shrewd personal branding involved. Sets you up to be ok with the public whether you get a gold or not. Get it and you’ve overachieved. Miss it and well, you yourself felt you weren’t that talented so maybe a silver of bronze was overachieving. Please, stop talking and just perform. No one cares what you say. They care what you do. Just do it.
It always strikes me how people that are physically very gifted - beyond any doubt - want to attribute their success to factors like mental strength and hard work.
If you've been around sport, athletics or otherwise, for any amount of time in your life, you always see that there is something that separates the very physically gifted from the very physically gifted that MAKE IT.
It always strikes me how people that are physically very gifted - beyond any doubt - want to attribute their success to factors like mental strength and hard work.
If you've been around sport, athletics or otherwise, for any amount of time in your life, you always see that there is something that separates the very physically gifted from the very physically gifted that MAKE IT.
That's true, I totally agree with you. It's all about brainy IQ and Josh is a dangerous warrior because he knows how to get in the ring and FIGHT EFFICIENTLY AND SMARTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Josh Kerr, appears out of nowhere and springs surprises yet we know he is too darn clean as a whistle from drugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So it's a legitimate surprise that he has all of us all the time. First the surprise of the Tokyo Bronze which really nobody expected to get, then World champs 22 where he got 5th with only 6 weeks of any real training and no base for that season, then world champs 23 when he won gold and outkicked Jakob, to his shocking 61:54 half marathon to his 2mile indoor WR then world indoor gold with another shocking 25.19s final 200m and then another shocking win at prefontaine classic mile in 3:45 with a huge drop of PB.
Josh has that special ability to shock and awe my word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only analogy I can make is NINJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the 15th and 16th century the Japanese ninja could move with supernatural ease over walls, roofs of buildings and the tiniest spaces with not a single evidence of sound or wind draft!!!!!!!!!!! They killed their enemies by shock and awe, they appeared in places difficult to enter with effortless ease bypassing all guards and other detectors. They were the KINGS OF ESPIONAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Josh Kerr is this exact KING OF ESPIONAGE in distance sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In those days, Japanese Ninjas lived like a monk, see no woman, touched no alcohol, ate no drugs, training by day and resting by night, day after day honing their Ninja skills, and this is what Josh Kerr is all about, A MONK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear all, MONKS CANNOT BE DEFEATED EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let alone a NINJA MONK?????? That's double armory against defeat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jakob doesn't know how to fight efficiently and effectively, losing 2 world championships in the 1500m, racing too many races in the diamond league trying to show off he can run fast week in and out and win, wasting all his 'mojo' on all these diamond league races, then wasting more 'mojo' to Elisabeth to give her a baby in an Olympic year, wasting further more 'mojo' by getting into an mind-energy-sapping lawsuit with Daddy Gjert and so on and so forth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jakob is a total opposite of Josh, so inefficient, so extravagant, so wasteful and profligate in his resources unlike a Japanese Ninja or Ninja Monk, you feeling me everyone????????
I Khamis know I talk a lot on LRC but I really speak lots of timeless substance on topics directly related to the realm of Physics/RF-Physics such as 'efficiency', 'energy', 'resources', 'space and time' (which is just another way of saying energy and efficiency') and applying it in the realm of high performance sport, human morality and ethics and so on.......
Come on folks, you have to already see that Josh Kerr is destined for gold in Paris!!!!!
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
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