Neither Jake Wightman or Josh Kerr will run in the European Championships

LarsL11 wrote:

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

I’m talking about recent form - not what people were doing 5 years ago or when they were 15. Jakob may have more medals. But in the last 2 years (and thus recent form). Jakob has lost out at the major world championships.

You can hate Kerr all you like but you must have seen the change in him recently. He is a different runner to what he was 3 years ago and even then he still won bronze at the Olympics in a highly competitive field. His trajectory is upwards. I think we are yet to really see what Jakob’s trajectory will be this year.

In the last 2 years (2022-) Jakob has won:

2xWC gold

2xWC silver

4x EC gold outdoors

WC silver indoors

2x EC gold indoors

3x Diamond League golds

EC cross country gold.

If this is losing out at the major championships then rest of the field of runners must really suck.

Its Ok to have different opinions, but lets stick to the same reality. If you are going to give Kerr (rightly) credit for his olympic bronze, it seems weird to brush away 4 world championship medals and say his olympic gold is to long ago.

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

LarsL11 wrote:

In the last 2 years (2022-) Jakob has won:

2xWC gold

2xWC silver

4x EC gold outdoors

WC silver indoors

2x EC gold indoors

3x Diamond League golds

EC cross country gold.

If this is losing out at the major championships then rest of the field of runners must really suck.

Its Ok to have different opinions, but lets stick to the same reality. If you are going to give Kerr (rightly) credit for his olympic bronze, it seems weird to brush away 4 world championship medals and say his olympic gold is to long ago.

I consider the major championships as The Worlds and The Olympics. He lost at the World Championships for the last 2 years - once to Kerr and once to Wightman. This is his recent form. He’s lost at the biggest championships of the year for the last 2 years.

As we have seen, many big names don’t do the Euros, they don’t do Indoors, they don’t do XC. Just because Jakob turns up to all of them doesn’t mean he didn’t lose the biggest championships in the world for the past two years. It was a shock - that’s what people remember. They don’t say ‘oh well at least he won XC and a few DL.

You seriously can’t be saying winning DL equates to ‘gold medals’

I wouldn’t be claiming a ‘silver WC indoor’ medal as an amazing feat either.

Let’s be honest it’s all eyes on the Worlds (outdoor) and the Olympics. That’s what people watch and remember. Not some XC from 2016…

objectiveobserver wrote:

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

I consider the major championships as The Worlds and The Olympics. He lost at the World Championships for the last 2 years - once to Kerr and once to Wightman. This is his recent form. He’s lost at the biggest championships of the year for the last 2 years.

As we have seen, many big names don’t do the Euros, they don’t do Indoors, they don’t do XC. Just because Jakob turns up to all of them doesn’t mean he didn’t lose the biggest championships in the world for the past two years. It was a shock - that’s what people remember. They don’t say ‘oh well at least he won XC and a few DL.

You seriously can’t be saying winning DL equates to ‘gold medals’

I wouldn’t be claiming a ‘silver WC indoor’ medal as an amazing feat either.

Let’s be honest it’s all eyes on the Worlds (outdoor) and the Olympics. That’s what people watch and remember. Not some XC from 2016…

Jakob hasn´t LOST at the 2 last WCs in the 1500m. He has won silver. It isn´t a boxing match where there is one winner and one loser. That you ignore his double 5000m gold in the discussion exposes your bias.

Winning the Diamond League isn´t at the same level as winning gold at the WC or Olympics. But it is still a rather good performance.

It has been discussed why Jakob is running almost everything ( not Worlds X country yet).

I think there are at least 3 reasons.

1. He loves to compete but not to train. So he uses every opportunity to skip the boring training.

2. he is like the cannibal Eddy Merckx: He wants to win as much as possible.

3. He knows that nothing sharpens more than racing at this time of the year.

I would like to add something about 3.:

Since some posters here feel uncomfortable when objectiveobserver draws on his own experiences as an elite (veteran) runner I will instead mention a classic example of the past (an example which even Armstrong will appriciate?):

When the internationally completely unknown Peter Snell arrived to the 800m competition of the Rome 1960 OG he had a PB 1:49.2.

There were so many participants that they had to run 2 heats the first day. Semifinal the next day and final the following day. Snell managed to PB every day and famously won the final over the Belgian favorite Moens in 1:46.48. So Snell managed to sharpen quite well with an improvement of 2.72 seconds within 3 days!

An example from the Tokyo OG 2021:

Kerr wasn´t at his best in the heat where he only qualified on time. Racing, however, can sharpen even though you aren´t at your best so he did much better in the semifinal. This time he got a "Q". And in the final the previous sharpeners helped him to a big PR and WON him the bronze.

objectiveobserver wrote:

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

I consider the major championships as The Worlds and The Olympics. He lost at the World Championships for the last 2 years - once to Kerr and once to Wightman. This is his recent form. He’s lost at the biggest championships of the year for the last 2 years.

As we have seen, many big names don’t do the Euros, they don’t do Indoors, they don’t do XC. Just because Jakob turns up to all of them doesn’t mean he didn’t lose the biggest championships in the world for the past two years. It was a shock - that’s what people remember. They don’t say ‘oh well at least he won XC and a few DL.

You seriously can’t be saying winning DL equates to ‘gold medals’

I wouldn’t be claiming a ‘silver WC indoor’ medal as an amazing feat either.

Let’s be honest it’s all eyes on the Worlds (outdoor) and the Olympics. That’s what people watch and remember. Not some XC from 2016…

Jakob hasn´t LOST at the 2 last WCs in the 1500m. He has won silver. It isn´t a boxing match where there is one winner and one loser. That you ignore his double 5000m gold in the discussion exposes your bias.

Winning the Diamond League isn´t at the same level as winning gold at the WC or Olympics. But it is still a rather good performance.

It has been discussed why Jakob is running almost everything ( not Worlds X country yet).

I think there are at least 3 reasons.

1. He loves to compete but not to train. So he uses every opportunity to skip the boring training.

2. he is like the cannibal Eddy Merckx: He wants to win as much as possible.

3. He knows that nothing sharpens more than racing at this time of the year.

I would like to add something about 3.:

Since some posters here feel uncomfortable when objectiveobserver draws on his own experiences as an elite (veteran) runner I will instead mention a classic example of the past (an example which even Armstrong will appriciate?):

When the internationally completely unknown Peter Snell arrived to the 800m competition of the Rome 1960 OG he had a PB 1:49.2.

There were so many participants that they had to run 2 heats the first day. Semifinal the next day and final the following day. Snell managed to PB every day and famously won the final over the Belgian favorite Moens in 1:46.48. So Snell managed to sharpen quite well with an improvement of 2.72 seconds within 3 days!

An example from the Tokyo OG 2021:

Kerr wasn´t at his best in the heat where he only qualified on time. Racing, however, can sharpen even though you aren´t at your best so he did much better in the semifinal. This time he got a "Q". And in the final the previous sharpeners helped him to a big PR and WON him the bronze.

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

LarsL11 wrote:

In the last 2 years (2022-) Jakob has won:

2xWC gold

2xWC silver

4x EC gold outdoors

WC silver indoors

2x EC gold indoors

3x Diamond League golds

EC cross country gold.

If this is losing out at the major championships then rest of the field of runners must really suck.

Its Ok to have different opinions, but lets stick to the same reality. If you are going to give Kerr (rightly) credit for his olympic bronze, it seems weird to brush away 4 world championship medals and say his olympic gold is to long ago.

I consider the major championships as The Worlds and The Olympics. He lost at the World Championships for the last 2 years - once to Kerr and once to Wightman. This is his recent form. He’s lost at the biggest championships of the year for the last 2 years.

As we have seen, many big names don’t do the Euros, they don’t do Indoors, they don’t do XC. Just because Jakob turns up to all of them doesn’t mean he didn’t lose the biggest championships in the world for the past two years. It was a shock - that’s what people remember. They don’t say ‘oh well at least he won XC and a few DL.

You seriously can’t be saying winning DL equates to ‘gold medals’

I wouldn’t be claiming a ‘silver WC indoor’ medal as an amazing feat either.

Let’s be honest it’s all eyes on the Worlds (outdoor) and the Olympics. That’s what people watch and remember. Not some XC from 2016…

LarsL11 wrote:

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

I consider the major championships as The Worlds and The Olympics. He lost at the World Championships for the last 2 years - once to Kerr and once to Wightman. This is his recent form. He’s lost at the biggest championships of the year for the last 2 years.

As we have seen, many big names don’t do the Euros, they don’t do Indoors, they don’t do XC. Just because Jakob turns up to all of them doesn’t mean he didn’t lose the biggest championships in the world for the past two years. It was a shock - that’s what people remember. They don’t say ‘oh well at least he won XC and a few DL.

You seriously can’t be saying winning DL equates to ‘gold medals’

I wouldn’t be claiming a ‘silver WC indoor’ medal as an amazing feat either.

Let’s be honest it’s all eyes on the Worlds (outdoor) and the Olympics. That’s what people watch and remember. Not some XC from 2016…

So 1 olympic gold. 2 WC golds, 2 WC silver. Horrible statistics, much worse than the rest of the field.

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

This thread isn’t about your apparent obsession (and others) with Jakob. It’s discussing why certain athletes (and there are many more of them) might choose to miss the Euros in an Olympic year. Why you have chosen to go off on one listing every medal Jakob has won - in events that have nothing to do with Kerr and Wightman, I have no idea. I don’t care what Jakob does in the 5k.

People have merely explained they are not ‘ducking’ anybody. They all have their own race schedules. They know what works best for them. If racing every race (and all the travel that that involves) works for Jakob then great. It won’t work (and would be too risky) for other athletes. Especially doubling. It’s high risk/ high gain. He loves competing.

Others take a more considered approach. Neither is right or wrong. But this approach meant he didn’t win 2 World Championships when he was supposed to.

Yorkshire Fell wrote:

objectiveobserver wrote:

Jakob hasn´t LOST at the 2 last WCs in the 1500m. He has won silver. It isn´t a boxing match where there is one winner and one loser. That you ignore his double 5000m gold in the discussion exposes your bias.

Winning the Diamond League isn´t at the same level as winning gold at the WC or Olympics. But it is still a rather good performance.

It has been discussed why Jakob is running almost everything ( not Worlds X country yet).

I think there are at least 3 reasons.

1. He loves to compete but not to train. So he uses every opportunity to skip the boring training.

2. he is like the cannibal Eddy Merckx: He wants to win as much as possible.

3. He knows that nothing sharpens more than racing at this time of the year.

I would like to add something about 3.:

Since some posters here feel uncomfortable when objectiveobserver draws on his own experiences as an elite (veteran) runner I will instead mention a classic example of the past (an example which even Armstrong will appriciate?):

When the internationally completely unknown Peter Snell arrived to the 800m competition of the Rome 1960 OG he had a PB 1:49.2.

There were so many participants that they had to run 2 heats the first day. Semifinal the next day and final the following day. Snell managed to PB every day and famously won the final over the Belgian favorite Moens in 1:46.48. So Snell managed to sharpen quite well with an improvement of 2.72 seconds within 3 days!

An example from the Tokyo OG 2021:

Kerr wasn´t at his best in the heat where he only qualified on time. Racing, however, can sharpen even though you aren´t at your best so he did much better in the semifinal. This time he got a "Q". And in the final the previous sharpeners helped him to a big PR and WON him the bronze.

This thread isn’t about your apparent obsession (and others) with Jakob. It’s discussing why certain athletes (and there are many more of them) might choose to miss the Euros in an Olympic year. Why you have chosen to go off on one listing every medal Jakob has won - in events that have nothing to do with Kerr and Wightman, I have no idea. I don’t care what Jakob does in the 5k.

People have merely explained they are not ‘ducking’ anybody. They all have their own race schedules. They know what works best for them. If racing every race (and all the travel that that involves) works for Jakob then great. It won’t work (and would be too risky) for other athletes. Especially doubling. It’s high risk/ high gain. He loves competing.

Others take a more considered approach. Neither is right or wrong. But this approach meant he didn’t win 2 World Championships when he was supposed to.