Can I run faster at 34 than 17?

You should be able to easily beat your old PR with sufficient mileage and a decent training regimen.

My PRs were very similar to yours. 60 second 400, 2:17 800 and a 38 minite 10k. This was on pretty low mileage in high school. at 40 I surpassed my mile and 5k PRs and surpassed my 10k at 41 and set new mile and 5K PRs.

The guy who said 14:40 to 16:10 isn’t as far off as others may think. while sub 15 maybe out if reach unless you want to go all in on training if you are willing to run 45 to 50+ mpw you can get down to 16 if you eat well and follow a competent training plan.

I found longer distances 10k plus much easier at 40 than 17 as I was more aerobically developed. Sure I would have beem fsster had I trained seriously in my mis twemties but almost every distance runner will be better in their 20s than at 17 as long as they put in the mileage.

Kiptum has been an outlier as far as Marathons go when he ran so fast at only 22 but he was continuing to get better and doesn’t seem to have peaked before he died at 24.

W/C 4th Nov:

Mon: 5mi easy with 4*100m strides

Tue: 8*200m 2 min turnarounds (35 for 200 = 1m25 rest) in 34, 34, 34, 35, 35, 36, 36, 35

Wed: 5mi easy with 4*100m strides

Thu: 4*1200m 6 min turnarounds in 4:26, 4:29, 4:29, 4:30

Fri: 10 hill sprints of about 80m with walk recovery (about 2 min)

Sat: Off

Sun: Off

Total: 28 miles

Legs felt a little heavy this week. Off at the weekend because of holiday/travelling. My endurance is pretty poor. Was aiming for 6:00/mi pace on Wed. Although I managed it, almost every repeat was faster for the first 200m and final 400m, with the middle being a bit slower. Would be a lot better if I could hold 6:00 pace the whole way.

I am racing 800m on Nov 30th, indoors. I think, if I time-trialled 800m on my own, I'd run about 2:24 now based on the recent 400m time trial (solo, 64-mid), 200m workout above, and the 4*400m/5m rest that I ran in 71, 70, 71, 72. This should be a bit faster in a race, but that might be negated by it being an indoor track. I think anything from 2:19 to 2:24 is possible. Probably best to aim for 68-69 for the first 400m, but we'll see how the next 3 weeks go first.

W/C 11th Nov:

Mon: Off (travelling)

Tue: 10*175m hill with jog rest - about 40-45s uphill and 1:15-1:30 jog. 6.25mi total

Wed: 5mi easy (legs felt battered from hills, so no strides)

Thur: 8*30m flys, felt quick but not sure if these are actually getting any faster. 3.5mi total

Fri: 5k tempo in 20:04, felt great - even pacing. 7.5mi total

Sat: Rest

Sun: Same as Tue (intended 5*200m at 400 pace but track closed, will do on coming Tue).

Total: 28mi

Pretty good week. Very happy with the tempo run - FINALLY getting down to 20 mins after 6 months, starting at 22. Hopefully will be consistently under 20 very soon. Hills absolutely wrecked my legs for 2 days on Tuesday, so hopefully that doesn't happen again. Might time-trial an 800 next Sunday solo, but not sure about that yet.

I'd do the 30 flys on fresh legs. I think that'd help you get the most benefit from them. also, how much rest are you taking for them? 8 already seems like a lot of reps, top speed development stuff requires like annoyingly long rests and less reps than you think a lot of times. I currently run a schedule that goes

m - top speed/speed endurance (4-6x30 fly on 4-5' rest + long rest (10 minutes) + 4x150 @ 400 effort on 3-4' rest
t - recovery run + strides
w - threshold or vO2 or 800 pace
th - recovery run + strides
f - hill sprints or speed endurance
s - long run
su - off

you'll have to tweak it to best fit your schedule but I do think its important to have the most rest you can for the 30 flys. even just a short easy run the day prior. everything else you can run on fatigued legs and still get the benefit.

Thanks. I always have an easy 5 miler the day prior to the flys, but could change it so they're preceded by a full day off if that's better

W/C 18th Nov:

Mon: 5mi easy, no strides as well below freezing

Tue: 5*200m in 32, 32, 32, 32, 31 with 4m28-4m29 walk rest, 5.75mi total

Wed: 5mi easy plus 4*100m strides

Thu: 10*hill repeats approx 240m in 47-48s, jog rest in ~2min, 5.75mi total

Fri: Attempted 3*1mi in 6:00 w. 2min rest, but was exhausted from day before. Jogged 2.5mi very slow, ran 0.75mi at 6:12 pace, and just bagged it and jogged back. 6mi total

Sat: Rest

Sun: 10*hill sprints approx 75m, walk rest in ~2min, 3.25mi total

Total: 30mi

Slightly annoying week. Should never have attempted a workout the day after a hard hill workout - won't ever do that again. Intended to try the mile repeats again on Sun (today) but I had no time to run until the track was closed and it was dark. There's nowhere to safely run fast at night here apart from the hill, so hill sprints it was. Don't love having a week without any hard endurance work, but I'll do the mile repeats (or maybe a tempo) on Tue. I might be racing the coming Sat but I don't know about that as it's nearly a 2 hour journey there, so might just wait until the new year to race formally.

W/C 25th Nov:

Mon: 6.25mi extremely easy (jog with group)

Tue: 3*1600m w. 2min rest in 5:58, 5:58, 5:57 - 8.25mi total

Wed: 5mi easy plus 4*100m strides

Thur: 10*240m hills (5% grade) w. 2min jog rest (approx) all in 46-51s. 5.75mi total

Fri: 5mi easy plus 4*100m strides

Sat: Rest

Sun: 10 roughly 70m hill sprints (approx 5% grade) with 90s-2min walk rest, 3.25mi total

Total: 34 miles

Happy with this week. Have moved down from 4 hard workouts to 3 and feel a lot better. I'm particularly happy with the 1600m repeats workout - this felt very manageable until the third rep, when it felt a bit tougher, but still in control. Think I could have ran another in under 6 with a 2 min rest if I had to, which indicates I might be able to run around 18:30 solo on the track now. If that's the case then I'm in much better 5k shape than I thought, although I doubt it somewhat.

Will start incorporating weights over Xmas to progress training now that I'm about 6 months in. Will also test myself over 800m around Xmas to see where I am. Started at 2:32, so to crack 2:22 for the first 6 months would be nice. I'd like to be well under 2:20 by May, as that will mark a full year of training and it would mean I might be able to hang on the back of the pack in track races once I've moved to Boston.

W/C 2nd Dec:

Mon: 5mi easy plus 4*100m strides

Tue: 5k tempo in 20:30, plus an extra 45s at same pace to complete loop - 5.5mi total

Wed: 5mi easy plus 4*100m strides

Thur: 10*0.15mi hill repeats at 5% grade in 48, 48, 48, 46, 46, 46, 47, 44, 47, 47 - 6.5mi total

Fri: 5mi easy plus 4*100m strides

Sat: Rest

Sun: Unplanned rest - storms

27mi total. Not a good week due to not running on Sun, but wind had blown over trees near me and seemed safest to skip. Had planned 10*70m hill sprints. The 5k tempo was irritating, went too hard in the second half-mile and ended up running a bit slower than I could have overall. The hills were good. One down week won't make a difference as I've been consistent with previous weeks, but it is annoying. Next week might be tricky to keep up this schedule due to travelling extensively almost every day, but I think I'll be able to manage it barring more freak weather.

How can you train from 11 to 17 taking it extremely serious and only run 63 for 400m and 18:29 for 5k?

Pretty sure I could run 63 before I'd ever done any training in my life, and 18:29 within 3 or 4 months of training.

Well, it's sort of what happens if you don't have any sprinting ability and never train it. That will limit you to a 63 and that in turn will limit you to around 18:00. I ran 55mpw when I was 18, with an interval session, long run, and tempo run weekly, but that was the first reasonable distance training I did - everything prior was 40mpw or less, trying to run 5k. That's OK mileage for 800 but not really for anything longer, so combined with my lack of sprint training, I was extending bad speed using bad endurance, which didn't work too well.

I'm now running 30mpw, but most of it is very intense stuff, because I know where the weakness lies - I have to get faster before going after distance. I think I'll be under 60 by the time I've trained for a year, based on my likely being in around 62 shape now, and starting at 68 shape 1y ago. If I start adding doubles and keep up the speed focus, then maybe I could get down to 58 or so, and around 2:10 for 800. It's not fast, but it would be better than before, and I find hard work for self-improvement rewarding.

Crappy week this week because of travel. Not the worst thing in the world for reasons that will be explained.

M: 5mi easy plus 4*100m strides

T: 5*1000m with 5m30 turnarounds (i.e ~1m50 rest) - 3:38, 3:41, ?, 3:41, 3:45 (I think) - no split exact on middle one but was around 3:38. 8.25mi total

W: 5mi plus 4*100m strides

T: Off

F: Off

S: Off

Su: Off

18mi total

Last 4 days off because of travel. Woke up on Sunday with pain in groin, exact site of old running injury, but had gone by the next day. Also dialled back inhaler usage on doctor advice, and now have chest tightness, so will fix this in next few days. Time off hence probably useful, if frustrating. The one workout was strong - faster on average than the last time I ran the workout a few weeks ago, and felt much easier, in worse conditions (heavy wind). Am aiming to progress training to 40mpw, rather than the consistent 25-35mpw I've been running for the last 6 months, over the Xmas period.

Even worse this week - off entirely due to illness. Thankfully recovered now, so can come back next week. I'll run easy Mon to Wed, then go back to my usual schedule. I'm hoping 11 days off in total won't have set me back too much, but illness can't be helped. Better than injury anyway. I'd like to get into good shape in 2 weeks time, because I'll start training with a club then, and don't want to be way off the back in all the workouts.

Goals for May (1y of total training) are sub 60 and sub 2:15. I think, before the illness, I was probably in 62-63 and 2:20-22 shape. Started at 68 and 2:32, so these goals may be possible, if perhaps a little ambitious.

Much better this week. Seemingly no fitness lost after rest due to illness. 3 very good workouts.

M: 5mi easy

T: 5mi easy

W: Off for Xmas (and rest to avoid rushing back)

T: 6*100m sprints down slight downhill with about 5 min rest, 3.75mi total

F: 5k tempo in 20:23, half-mile paces 4:15, 4:06, 4:05, 3:58, 4:04, 3:59, 3:51 per km (last pace for 0.11mi). 7.5mi total

S: 5mi easy

S: 10*175m steep hill in 40-43s, jog back rests in ~1m20. 6.25mi total

Total = 32mi

Very happy with this. Happy with the tempo, but might have been best to run a bit harder at the start. Next week will be basically the same, although I intend to replace the easy 5mi runs with easy 10k runs, add the strides back into the easy runs, and replace the Tuesday easy run with long intervals on the track at 5k pace. This will bring it to 35mpw. Not sure how best to progress the training from there as you don't need to run much more than that for 800m, but could look to add 2 gym sessions.

This week was harder.

M: 5mi easy with 4 100m strides

T: 20 min easy with 4 100m strides, 10x2min hard with 1 min jog, 10 min easy. All ran continuously over bike paths in high winds with some hills. 7.6mi total

W: 5mi easy with 4 100m strides

T: 20 min easy, 10x175m hill repeats with jog rest (approx 1m15), 20 min easy. 6.2mi total

F: 5mi easy with 4 100m strides

S: 1.25mi easy, 4 100m strides, 5k tempo in 21:04, 1.25mi easy. 5.7mi total. Very heavy legs, couldn't open stride

S: Off (busy)

Total = 34.5mi

Great week apart from Sat - 1 min slower on tempo but couldn't do anything about it, pretty tired. The rest on Sun wasn't intentional but was probably a good thing. Only real annoyance is the lack of a sprint session (this was meant to be the Sun run). Had to take Monday off as I was flying from the UK to the US, but can do the sprints on Tue, so no real harm done.

Reasonable this week.

M: Off

T: Off

W: 6*100m sprint down slight hill with 5 min rest

T: Continuously: 5 min jog, 5 min jog with 4x100 strides, 6x3min hard efforts/1min jog, 7 min jog for 40m total

F: 5mi with 4x100m strides

S: 5k tempo in 21:41, over snow

S: 10*30s hill repeats with 1m15 jog recovery, again over snow

Total: 25.5mi

Slightly lower mileage due to the 2 days off at the start. This couldn't really be helped as I was coordinating a transatlantic move, but was annoying. Still got the 4 hard workouts I want out of a week. I felt fast doing the hills, but other than that, my legs have felt heavy and my stride too short on the harder distance efforts. Hopefully that's not an indication that I've lost too much speed. I'm racing 800m indoors on Sunday, so we'll see. I'd like to beat my old best time of 2:22, but I really don't know how fast I am right now. It's been well below freezing for all runs this week, plus a bunch of snow fell on Sat, but still got some good training in, so that's nice.

I'm going to start training with a club next week, which hopefully will get me faster. I also live 1 mile away from my new job, so I'm going to run that 1 mile home every day. Obviously, this won't increase fitness, but the point is to prepare my legs for the phasing in of doubles. In this first 8 months or so of training I've build to a good base of 2 easy runs, 2 hard endurance runs, and 2 hard fast runs on hills and flat. If I can just add some mileage around that with doubles, it would be pretty solid training, so it will be fun to give that a go.

Good week!

M: 5mi easy with 4x100m strides

T: 5x800m/90s rest, 5 min rest, 4x200/? rest. Felt like a hard effort, beyond that can't say - don't know times and they wouldn't be a good read of anything anyway as about 100 people were on a 200m track, so rep speed depended on traffic. 6mi total

W: 5mi easy, no strides as needed recovery

T: 6x100m sprints with 700m jog rest, 5mi total

F: 5mi easy with 4x100m strides

S: Rest

S: 800 race in 2:25. Felt like there's time for the taking here. Finished with some energy left, negative split the race (73/72), nearly fell at 650m. Think I could have caughtbthe leader if I'd started my kick sooner. Might race again in 2 weeks and would aim for sub 2:24 based on this. My best last season was 2:26 outdoors and it felt harder than this, so there has been an improvement.

30mpw total - maybe slightly higher but I don't know today's mileage.

Will add a couple of doubles next week.

M: Off, tired from 800 previous day and moving furniture all afternoon in a snowstorm

T: 24x200, 5.6mi total. Don't know speed, probably 5:30 pace or so.

W: 5mi easy, no strides as felt very tired

T: am: 5x80m (approx) sprints, 2mi total. pm: 3.3mi easy. 5.3mi total

F: am: 5x0.2mi/90s rest 59-60 each. Trainers, freezing, pavement. pm: 3.3mi easy. 6.6mi total

S: 3.3mi easy

S: 3.3mi easy am and pm

Total: 33mi.

Good week. Thursday was great, felt amazing at 800 pace. First week adding doubles and went well. Will add more next week.

M: 5x80m sprints (approx) am - 2mi. 3.3mi easy pm. 5.3mi total
T: 6x800m am, don't know rest. 5.6mi. 3.3mi easy pm. 8.9mi total
W: 3.3mi easy am. 3.3mi easy pm. 6.6mi total
T: 5x0.2mi/2 min turnarounds am, around 520 pace. 2mi. 3.3mi easy pm. 5.3mi total
F: 3.3mi easy am. 3.3mi total
S: 20x0.2mi 5:40 pace am, 6.6mi total. 3.3mi easy pm. 9.9mi total
S: Will be off
Total: 39.3mi

Tuesday and Thursday's workouts felt absolutely horrible. No real reason why for Tuesday, but Thursday was because I was trying to run 800m pace in freezing temperatures with a 5 minute warm up, since I only had 20 minutes to run that morning. Was way off pace, but the effort was correct. The Monday sprints and the Sat session were much better.

Everywhere near me is covered in ice and snow at the moment, so all my hard sessions have to either be run on an indoor track (Tue) or along this 0.2mi stretch of cleared pavement (Mon, Thur, Sat). Slow runs can be on the snowy terrain, but I'd be very scared of falling if I was even running marathon pace. Hopefully this will clear a little as I'd like to make the Saturday session a continuous tempo run rather than a huge number of short intervals.

I've started doubling properly now. The bulk of my runs are now very short, which I'm doing to try to avoid injury since the frequency is much higher. I'll stick with this schedule until May I think (it would usually be 45mpw, not 39, but the shorter Thur run and the skipped evening run on Fri prevented this this week). At that point I might gradually lengthen all the 3.3mi runs to easy 5mi runs, which would put me at 55-60mpw.