Her situation isn't unique. She's just another convicted doper. But her fans can't get over it. And nor can she, so the excuses never stop.
It is unique. The assumption, here, is that a world famous athlete who it is assumed wished to cheat took something that lingers in the fat cells of the system rather than took something fast in and out. No-one takes nandrolone. Even when prohormones came out, which were quick acting, nandrolone metabolites (from the 19-Nor Androstenedione) were still showing up. She wouldn't be so blithe (or stupid) as to take a nandrolone-based drug. Nandrolone also holds water from salt retention. Again, makes no sense. And, if it makes no sense, it usually isn't true.
There's 19-nor DHEA supplements that available as a dietary supplement. The CAS report even mentions this is one possibility that could have resulted in the positive test (same type of metabolites as produced by 19-nandrolone).
Search 19-nor DHEA supplements and they pop up all over the internet from companies ready to take your order. Lol. In fact, I've seen 19-nor DHEA supplements at a health food store right alongside the DHEA & progesterone supplements.
There's 19-nor DHEA supplements that available as a dietary supplement. The CAS report even mentions this is one possibility that could have resulted in the positive test (same type of metabolites as produced by 19-nandrolone).
Search 19-nor DHEA supplements and they pop up all over the internet from companies ready to take your order. Lol. In fact, I've seen 19-nor DHEA supplements at a health food store right alongside the DHEA & progesterone supplements.
I’m willing to believe this is the most-likely source
There's 19-nor DHEA supplements that available as a dietary supplement. The CAS report even mentions this is one possibility that could have resulted in the positive test (same type of metabolites as produced by 19-nandrolone).
Search 19-nor DHEA supplements and they pop up all over the internet from companies ready to take your order. Lol. In fact, I've seen 19-nor DHEA supplements at a health food store right alongside the DHEA & progesterone supplements.
I’m willing to believe this is the most-likely source
DHEA can manipulate all by products of testosterone production most notably the most anabolic DHT. Within this breakdown of estradiol, estrogen is endogenous nandrolone.
DHEA is available at your local Walgreens and is a Banned Substance. I remember it was noted SH tested negative for exogenous Nandrolone less than 24hrs after positive. One of SH podcasts noted how the burrito excuses was a poor choice but they felt it was limited and the only thing to use. SH also provided all of her supps.
The only correlation could be what happens to supplement manufacturers contaminating ingredients...This would also be at a limit for resources, dissecting all of the supps that could alter natural endogenous levels of Nandrolone.
You quote that rubbish as though it were fact rather than an intentional (there's that word again) distortion of the process for self-serving ends. Sanctioning an athlete means finding facts that establish and confirm guilt. That is what happened to Houlihan. The "truth beyond reasonable doubts" is irrelevant because it is not a criminal process; the test is the balance of probabilities, which is what civil courts apply (as CAS is) and what we typically use in everyday life. According to that standard most of us are satisfied Houlihan intentionally doped. You think you know better but all you do is show your bias (you think Houlihan is "nice" - spare me) and that you are out of your depth because you have no grasp of the legal processes. Fortunately, your views are irrelevant as to how they work and Houlihan has got what she deserved.
It's disappointing that some people are still not acquainted with the facts of the case, nor the law of the case.
Contrary to your imagination, the sanction is not based on any identifiable "finding (of) facts that establish and confirm" "intentional", but rather the weaker double negative finding of insufficient facts to the contrary. As a consequence, the finding of "intent" you are satisfied with was never established by the CAS to your preferred civil standard of "balance of probability", but rather to the lowest possible standard in existence, "presumption".
Seems like someone who passed the bar should understand the subtle nuance between "finding facts that establish and confirm intent" and "presuming intent until established otherwise solely for the purpose of determining sanction".
But don't take my word for it. Let's see what the CAS and WADA told us, in their own words, to their own self-serving ends ...
As you are someone who purports to "grasp the legal processes", these eight (8) extracted quotes from the CAS and the WADA Code should not be too burdensome for you to interpret.
The CAS told us:
"90. In the present case, the burden of proof that the ADRV was not intentional is on the Athlete,"
(48 paragraphs repeatedly asserting then discrediting "not intentional", while never providing evidence of Athlete "intent")
"139. Finally, although the Athlete was a credible witness and has brought compelling character witness evidence in support of her defense, she ... did not bring forward sufficient objective evidence that would warrant the application of Rule 10.2.1 a. of the WA ADR." (see WADA 10.2.1.1 below)
"140. Accordingly, the Panel concludes that the Athlete has not satisfied her burden of proof on the balance of probabilities that the ADRV was unintentional, and the ADRV must be deemed to be intentional."
CAS conclusion: "Intent" neither "established" nor "confirmed" by "finding facts", but rather "deemed" based on a finding that "the Athlete" "did not bring forward" "sufficient objective evidence" of "unintentional".
Here are the relevant quotes from the WADA Code, showing the rules that control the CAS, that the athlete must establish "not intentional", according to a "special definition of "intentional" ... to be applied solely for the purposes of Article 10.2" i.e. determining the sanction:
"10.2 Ineligibility for Presence, Use or Attempted Use or Possession of a Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method"
"10.2.1 The period of Ineligibility, subject to Article 10.2.4, shall be four (4) years where:"
"10.2.1.1 The anti-doping rule violation does not involve a Specified Substance or a Specified Method, unless the Athlete or other Person can establish that the anti-doping rule violation was not intentional."
"10.2.3 As used in Article 10.2, the term “intentional” is meant to identify those Athletes or other Persons who engage in conduct which they knew constituted an anti-doping rule violation or knew that there was a significant risk that the conduct might constitute or result in an anti-doping rule violation and manifestly disregarded that risk. [59]"
"59 [Comment to Article 10.2.3: Article 10.2.3 provides a special definition of "intentional" which is to be applied solely for purposes of Article 10.2.]"
Notes:
- We can find nowhere any support for a suggestion of "finding (of) facts that establish and confirm" "intentional".
- The ball is in your court to "find facts" that can show a material distinction between how I characterized "intent", allegedly for my own self-serving ends, and how the CAS explained it, and how the WADA Code defines it, for their own respective self-serving ends.
- Although WADA provides a "special definition" of "intentional", there is no specific conduct identified, or evidence establishing such conduct, that Houlihan allegedly engaged in, by the WA/AIU or the CAS that meets the criteria in 10.2.3.
- As there were no facts before the CAS establishing "intentional" to any standard stronger than "presumption", and similarly there were no facts identifying the conduct the Athlete was alleged to have engaged in, there is no rational tangible basis for the general public (i.e. "people here") to be more certain of something that the CAS did not find to any certainty beyond the legal standard of "presumption".
Yes, because Shelby does not have Elon's neurolink installed yet and is not willing to testify against herself we are unable to prove for sure her intent. So we can believe the highly likely possibility that a member of a training that was thought by many in the sport to likely partake in doping was indeed doping intentionally. Or we can believe Shelby got a pig stomach burrito and somehow had several times the possible levels of the drug you'd see from food contamination.
The main reasons I don't believe Shelby are not even the scientific ones, as I don't know enough about that.
1. She showed she's completely willing to lie to make herself look better, and to get what she wants.
While she was already suspended, she lied to the public that she just had a nagging injury and would be racing soon.
She intentionally misled people to think she ordered a pork burrito.
She's said SHE doesn't even believe the burrito thing, and yet in the press conference she looked right into the camera and said "I believe my explanation is the most convincing one...because it is true"
2. She doesn't care what others want, she goes after what SHE wants
Her continuing to race despite people feeling uncomfortable with it, shows she thinks of herself first. Basically, she's shown herself, in my opinion, to be someone who is willing to lie, and willing to disrespect the sport and competitors. These are the traits of a doper.
She seems like a genuinely wonderful person. I've followed her for years. Even if you think it's unlikely a burrito was the cause of the positive test, why are you so sure that Shelby intentionally cheated? People here often claim that this is the case and that she's a legit psychopath who refuses to admit what she's done wrong. But if she were a psychopath, why does she have so many friends and people around her who say she's an incredible person? And if she wanted an advantage, why would she choose to dope but not wear super shoes? Looking for genuine convo here - I just don't understand how anyone can smear Shelby online. I'm a huge fan of hers.
OP, I would like to engage in a civil, genuine conversation about this. My understanding of your post is that you think Shelby is clean because she appears to be a good person with a lot of friends who also think that she is a good person. I don’t think that being a good person makes it impossible for you to take performance enhancing drugs. You can still be a nice and genuinely incredibly person and cheat. A poster just quoted from an article that said the amount of nandrolone in Shelby’s system was 2-3 times what would be expected from a food contamination test. I recall Shelby saying that she only had minimal amounts of nandrolone in her system. She lied. Her team only backtracked on the burrito defense after it didn’t work. I’m not sure if she intentionally cheated or not but the evidence isn’t good. It seems like her ban is well deserved based on the amount in her system. One theory that I have is that she was taking a grey area supplement that either had nandrolone in it or was contaminated. Since it was a grey area supplement, she isn’t going to come out and say that she took it. It’s a bad look either way. Maybe her teammates were also taking this. She had an injury in 2019/2020 (or maybe that was just a cover for why she wasn’t racing). Maybe she was taking a grey area supplement to help heal her injury.
It's more than that. She seems like a genuinely wonderful person, many people around her attest to this, AND she has been an outspoken advocate for clean sport, working hard, and finding out what you can accomplish with hard work. She didn't even use carbon plated shoes in 2019. Since her positive test, she and those around her have passionately maintained that she is innocent. Shelby has even revealed that she considered suicide. If she is lying, that would make her an absolute psycho trickster. It would go far, far beyond her being a "nice person who cheated and now won't admit it". Anyone with even the slightest capacity for human connection, understanding and empathy will see that Shelby is a truly genuine person who has been deeply hurt by this ordeal. The comments people make are cruel. I don't know if the burrito defense was the best one, but at the end of the day, they posited what they thought was the most reasonable explanation given that they had no idea what caused the positive test, and given that they weren't notified until months after the initial result. Did Shelby intentionally cheat? Imo, not a chance in hell. Should Shelby have been banned? I don't know - that's a different question.
The main reasons I don't believe Shelby are not even the scientific ones, as I don't know enough about that.
1. She showed she's completely willing to lie to make herself look better, and to get what she wants.
While she was already suspended, she lied to the public that she just had a nagging injury and would be racing soon.
She intentionally misled people to think she ordered a pork burrito.
She's said SHE doesn't even believe the burrito thing, and yet in the press conference she looked right into the camera and said "I believe my explanation is the most convincing one...because it is true"
2. She doesn't care what others want, she goes after what SHE wants
Her continuing to race despite people feeling uncomfortable with it, shows she thinks of herself first. Basically, she's shown herself, in my opinion, to be someone who is willing to lie, and willing to disrespect the sport and competitors. These are the traits of a doper.
Pascal should be banned with Shelby. They are both terrible for the sport
Her situation isn't unique. She's just another convicted doper. But her fans can't get over it. And nor can she, so the excuses never stop.
It is unique. The assumption, here, is that a world famous athlete who it is assumed wished to cheat took something that lingers in the fat cells of the system rather than took something fast in and out. No-one takes nandrolone. Even when prohormones came out, which were quick acting, nandrolone metabolites (from the 19-Nor Androstenedione) were still showing up. She wouldn't be so blithe (or stupid) as to take a nandrolone-based drug. Nandrolone also holds water from salt retention. Again, makes no sense. And, if it makes no sense, it usually isn't true.
It does make sense. It is a listed ped. Kenyans take it. That's the gold test.
OP, I would like to engage in a civil, genuine conversation about this. My understanding of your post is that you think Shelby is clean because she appears to be a good person with a lot of friends who also think that she is a good person. I don’t think that being a good person makes it impossible for you to take performance enhancing drugs. You can still be a nice and genuinely incredibly person and cheat. A poster just quoted from an article that said the amount of nandrolone in Shelby’s system was 2-3 times what would be expected from a food contamination test. I recall Shelby saying that she only had minimal amounts of nandrolone in her system. She lied. Her team only backtracked on the burrito defense after it didn’t work. I’m not sure if she intentionally cheated or not but the evidence isn’t good. It seems like her ban is well deserved based on the amount in her system. One theory that I have is that she was taking a grey area supplement that either had nandrolone in it or was contaminated. Since it was a grey area supplement, she isn’t going to come out and say that she took it. It’s a bad look either way. Maybe her teammates were also taking this. She had an injury in 2019/2020 (or maybe that was just a cover for why she wasn’t racing). Maybe she was taking a grey area supplement to help heal her injury.
It's more than that. She seems like a genuinely wonderful person, many people around her attest to this, AND she has been an outspoken advocate for clean sport, working hard, and finding out what you can accomplish with hard work. She didn't even use carbon plated shoes in 2019. Since her positive test, she and those around her have passionately maintained that she is innocent. Shelby has even revealed that she considered suicide. If she is lying, that would make her an absolute psycho trickster. It would go far, far beyond her being a "nice person who cheated and now won't admit it". Anyone with even the slightest capacity for human connection, understanding and empathy will see that Shelby is a truly genuine person who has been deeply hurt by this ordeal. The comments people make are cruel. I don't know if the burrito defense was the best one, but at the end of the day, they posited what they thought was the most reasonable explanation given that they had no idea what caused the positive test, and given that they weren't notified until months after the initial result. Did Shelby intentionally cheat? Imo, not a chance in hell. Should Shelby have been banned? I don't know - that's a different question.
She seems like a genuinely wonderful person. I've followed her for years. Even if you think it's unlikely a burrito was the cause of the positive test, why are you so sure that Shelby intentionally cheated? People here often claim that this is the case and that she's a legit psychopath who refuses to admit what she's done wrong. But if she were a psychopath, why does she have so many friends and people around her who say she's an incredible person? And if she wanted an advantage, why would she choose to dope but not wear super shoes? Looking for genuine convo here - I just don't understand how anyone can smear Shelby online. I'm a huge fan of hers.
I think in all of this nandro SH talk one should make mention of the fact that she has No Spleen! If that's the case your always going to be down from RBC production.
Yes supplements like b complex, folate, iron help but the by product of anabolic hormones is increased RBC, crit, and all blood markers.
Maybe I missed it but why didn't LRC journalists, podcasters, running media ever expand on this condition?!
I recently learned that Shelby Houlihan has a blood disease called 'spherocytosis' that is hereditary. http://running.competitor.com/2014/02/news/fighting-for-every-step-5-questions-with-shelby-houlihan_94974Spherocytosis...
OP, I would like to engage in a civil, genuine conversation about this. My understanding of your post is that you think Shelby is clean because she appears to be a good person with a lot of friends who also think that she is a good person. I don’t think that being a good person makes it impossible for you to take performance enhancing drugs. You can still be a nice and genuinely incredibly person and cheat. A poster just quoted from an article that said the amount of nandrolone in Shelby’s system was 2-3 times what would be expected from a food contamination test. I recall Shelby saying that she only had minimal amounts of nandrolone in her system. She lied. Her team only backtracked on the burrito defense after it didn’t work. I’m not sure if she intentionally cheated or not but the evidence isn’t good. It seems like her ban is well deserved based on the amount in her system. One theory that I have is that she was taking a grey area supplement that either had nandrolone in it or was contaminated. Since it was a grey area supplement, she isn’t going to come out and say that she took it. It’s a bad look either way. Maybe her teammates were also taking this. She had an injury in 2019/2020 (or maybe that was just a cover for why she wasn’t racing). Maybe she was taking a grey area supplement to help heal her injury.
It's more than that. She seems like a genuinely wonderful person, many people around her attest to this, AND she has been an outspoken advocate for clean sport, working hard, and finding out what you can accomplish with hard work. She didn't even use carbon plated shoes in 2019. Since her positive test, she and those around her have passionately maintained that she is innocent. Shelby has even revealed that she considered suicide. If she is lying, that would make her an absolute psycho trickster. It would go far, far beyond her being a "nice person who cheated and now won't admit it". Anyone with even the slightest capacity for human connection, understanding and empathy will see that Shelby is a truly genuine person who has been deeply hurt by this ordeal. The comments people make are cruel. I don't know if the burrito defense was the best one, but at the end of the day, they posited what they thought was the most reasonable explanation given that they had no idea what caused the positive test, and given that they weren't notified until months after the initial result. Did Shelby intentionally cheat? Imo, not a chance in hell. Should Shelby have been banned? I don't know - that's a different question.
And every time some new serial killer is found the neighbors say what a nice person they were and they never saw it coming.
Nandrolone doesn’t even work on American athletes, BC they are ingesting it through cheeseburgers from childhood. So even if it was present it would not be performance enhancing
She seems like a genuinely wonderful person. I've followed her for years. Even if you think it's unlikely a burrito was the cause of the positive test, why are you so sure that Shelby intentionally cheated? People here often claim that this is the case and that she's a legit psychopath who refuses to admit what she's done wrong. But if she were a psychopath, why does she have so many friends and people around her who say she's an incredible person? And if she wanted an advantage, why would she choose to dope but not wear super shoes? Looking for genuine convo here - I just don't understand how anyone can smear Shelby online. I'm a huge fan of hers.
Oh the irony. The facts of the "legal" process are that an arbitration panel upheld a codified-in-2015 presumption of intent, for the exclusive purpose of determining a 4-year sanction, as it found Houlihan was unable to establish the source (a strongly suggested prequisite to establishing non-intent) on the balance of probability.
The arbitration panel finding is more accurately described as a finding of "probably-not not-intentional based on the limited and incomplete evidence before us".
