Is this child abuse? Dad makes 12 year old daughter run marathons

List is short but strong:

Mary Decker

"At age 12, she completed a marathon and four middle- and long-distance races in one week, ending the week with an appendectomy operation."

"In 1982 Decker-Tabb set six world records at distances ranging from the mile run to 10,000 meters."

"Compartment syndrome" and "series of stress-induced fractures", but she was able to compete at least until the age of 37.

en.wikipedia.org

Mary Decker

Mary Teresa Slaney (formerly Tabb, née Decker, born August 4, 1958) is an American retired middle-distance runner. During her career, she won gold medals in the 1500 meters and 3000 meters at the 1983 World Championships and...

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In all likelihood she will hit puberty and no longer be able to come close to the times she is running now as a 12 year old. Why not let her have fun now and do marathons if she wants? In a few years she can look back on this time fondly and may always run for enjoyment. There is no evidence that doing easy mileage at a young age causes health issues later. The same can not be said for intensity training or weight training. Gebrselassie ran 20km to school and back every day from when he started high school. Burnout in young athletes is mainly a factor in motivation. Are they training to please a coach or parent or because they are internally motivated? Without knowing the dynamic in this relationship it is hard to make an accurate evaluation. I ran 7 marathons while still at high school with a PB in every one. My parents thought I was crazy and I had no coach. My fastest times all came in my 20's. There is no one best way for every child athlete but basing your criticisms of her current training on whether she will make the Olympics one day is silly as the chances are so infinitesimal anyway.

Horrible idea and setting this talented kid up for a life of running related injuries and/or burnout!

For the record I could absolutely CRUSH this twelve-year old girl in a marathon. Just have to put that out there.

It is depressing that she apparently won't have a chance to run high school XC/TF due to her dad's obsession with the marathon.

It's bizarre that a former D1 athlete, from Duke of all places, isn't capable of understanding how this training is physically and mentally unsustainable.

I know a nationally ranked triathlete who has trained like a madman since he was 5. His father has been accused of forcing him to work too hard - getting up before school to swim thousands of meters and then getting on the bike after school for hours, etc.

I also know that this father, at the beginning of every year since he was 5, has told his son, I don't want you to do this unless you are sure this is what you want to do. Every year his son said he wanted to be an Olympic triathlete. His father, literally, NEVER brought up the Olympics. It was his choice.

I don't know if this father is doing the same thing, but I will not assume he is treating his daughter poorly. God bless a parent who is willing to help a child chase their dreams. I hope that is what is going on here.

My friend eventually stopped coaching his son as he turned into a teenager and needed a professional coach. That kid has turned out to be one of the best young people I have ever met. The things he learned through all that training have been valuable in his life. And he wouldn't change a thing. I know, I've asked him.

Looks like there were two simultaneous threads on this story.

Typical runners reaction because running isn’t considered a real sport and has nonexistent organized sport prior to high school. Meanwhile US swimmers are 8+ years in to training by high school and dominating on the world stage.

Exactly. And despite this, the thread title remains unchanged by the owners because they know it will generate more traffic.

"Twelve-year-old girl enjoys running marathons (2:58 PR) and hopes to make the Paris Olympic Team"

won't get nearly the number of hits that

"Is this child abuse? Dad makes 12 year old daughter run marathons"

It doesn't always turn out this way. Cathy Schiro O'Brien was a 4x Footlocker qualifier and a 5x New England XC champion (won starting in 8th grade). She ran a marathon at age 16 in 2:45, qualifying for the '84 Trials. Still 16, she finished 9th at the Trials in about 2:34 I think and was actually in the top-3 with only a few miles to go before she faded. She ended up making the Olympic marathon team in '88 and '92 and was top-10 at the Olympics.

But swimming is a lot different as you can get in a high volume of work from a young age without the commensurate burnout or injury risk.

I hope someone tees this thread up in five years. My guess is she won’t be running anymore.

Do you both understand that the article is what we call a "puff piece"?

Of course they aren't going to say he "makes her run". They are trying to caste them in a rose colored glasses light. The article included irrelevant details like how she was named after a tour de france winner, so that she seems pre-destined for marathon success. It focuses on those details so the reader can ignore the bigger picture.

The title should not change. She is not eligible to run in the Paris Olympics because she didn't quality and she is twelve. She will not qualify for any Olympic team because she still won't be old enough in 2028 and by 2032 she will likely not be running at all anymore. 2:58 is a great marathon time but she has a long way to go before she can hit any top tier time for the marathon and likely won't do it.

For those who pointed out Hadley or Cathy Schiro...Both were too young to be running marathons, but they were still a lot older and more developed than 12. They were in high school when they ran their first one at least!

Nothing about this story should be lauded or celebrated. It's honestly more and more scary the more I sit with it. A sixth grader?? If she had a dream of running a marathon, her dad should have said, fantastic let's sign you up for youth track to see how you like it. You have your whole life to put your body through that. But foster a love for the sport and an understanding of how training works.

12 year olds shouldn't be training for a marathon, but Elliot Daniels ran a 14:34 5k in his freshman year of college last spring, winning the race by over 30 seconds... The HS time you reference is a far cry from his focus during HS (9:22 3200), which also involved what I assume was solo training during the covid years. Also, his dad states in the article that you posted that he wouldn't let his son run a marathon at that age because of the emotional toll it would take. Perhaps choose a different example to make your point? As this *seems* to be a case where things were handled well and resulted in relative success.

This sounds like Andre Agassi's dad tbh.

I'm sure your friend is a great person, but this wouldn't work well for 99.9% of human beings.

The gaslighting involved with this crap. A five year old? Five year olds throw tantrums over the smallest things. They can't regulate their emotions. They can't sit still at dinner. Most can't even read.

Training your five year old son "like a madman" and then turning around and saying "I don't want to do this unless you are SURE this is what YOU want to do" is just psychotic manipulation from a parent, I'm sorry. The kid can't even feed himself, and depends on his parents for everything. And you have a dad training him to the brink, and he's doing it because he thinks this is what he needs to feel love and security from his parents. And when he's absolutely exhausted, the dad uses perfect manipulation and gaslighting tactics to flip in on it's head and convince the son it was all his idea in the first place. Psychopathic.

Great post. Terrific. I hope other parents will read this and understand it. This is why I’m recommending not really regimented “training” during the formative years.

Now, if your kid is in a really sh*tty coaching situation, high school or otherwise, then there’s no problem jumping in and being their advocate. Because there are plenty of very mediocre coaches who don’t understand some nuance, and it’s a very hard conversation to have. But you also don’t want to be a snowplow parent.

So, with all that said, again, I’d advocate fun sports in the formative years getting them moving in different planes, and swimming is just a great summer sport when there isn’t much else going on, and then making absolutely sure you get the high school coaching situation right and then absolutely handing over the keys.

But, if you have a potentially college bound runner, you absolutely have to get that high school decision right, because many states don’t allow the transfer. Which is complete BS. By the way, a very mediocre coach is not going to think they are mediocre. They’re simply going to make excuses and wonder why they can’t get the “good kids,” not realizing their reputation precedes them in a town or state. Word to the wise. I’ve dealt with all of this crap.

This whole thing is insane on so many levels.

1) I 100% guarantee she won't be in the Olympic marathon in 2028. I can't believe the article didn't mention there is a 20-year age limit for the marathon by WA.

2) Is 2:58 even exceptional for a 12-year old? We have no idea as no one does it. But the Dad said she doesn't have amazing talent and if she doesn't have amazing talent, I guarantee she won't even make the Olympics or even make the Trials. You can't will yourself to the Trials. You need talent - lots of it.

3) All of that being said,I actually don't have a problem from a physiological standpoint with HS kids running A LOT but i have a huge problem with them doing it for social media fame.

If my son (who is six) said he wanted to run a marathon at 12, I doubt I'd let him do it. But if I did, I'd take him out to a bike path and have him do it on his own. A one off crazy feat on the weekend isn't going to ruin your life and might be fun. Thinking you are destined for Olympic greatness because you are the only one to run a mediocre time at age 12 might.

I can't believe the dad is a Duke grad. But I think a lot of people who haven't coached distance running at a high level don't realize how important talent is. Many casual people - even runners themselves - think they are just more determined than everyone else. False.

There's a reason why NCAA schools recruit.

Yes working out 7 days a week helps and walking to school probably helps a tiny bit but it's like getting a kid into "Head Start" in Pre-k. The studies show it wears off by the time they are teens. Paul Tergat didn't walk far distances to schoolor train at an early age. He lived across the street from the school (I may be getting him confused with another I talked to once who said he lived across the street from the school but that may have been a top NCAA guy) and started running late in life - after HS.

Millions of kenyans walk to school every day just like they do in India. And most of them - unless they are kalenjin - suck at running.

It's a lofty goal and she'll need to exceed her perceived limits. They should hook up with Salazar ASAP as possible. She'll make it or die trying. Glory to God.

http://age-records.125mb.com

If we insist on 12 years, there is Jennifer Amyx 2:58 (her PB, she grew up to
6-1 1/2 in HS "... scaled back the mileage and focused on cross-country and track, basketball, academics and school life. She was president of her senior class, earned 10 state championships in cross-country and track and was the county's scholar-athlete and, upon
graduation, her class valedictorian.")

Then Manuela Zipse 2:54 as mentioned in article (PB 2:30 at age of 24) and Monika Frisch 3:10 (Austrian champion in 83.)

Probably there are many more but 3 things are obvious:

First, it is not a problem for a tiny girl to run sub 3 hr (or boy, Wesley Paul 2:46) if she trains like a madman. Second, and most important, nobody died or got seriously injured in the process, they are stil able to run. Third, it has no relation with success after puberty when they get new body and new interests, so trying different sports is much better time spent than running 7 days a week.

My conclusion: if kids want to run for fun as far as they can, OK. Stop them immediately if they are injured, exhausted, dehydrated, suffering ...

Real abusers are author of this article in 'LA Times', fathers who have channel on YT or Instagram, everyone who uses words 'prodigy', 'phenom', 'perspective', 'Olympics', 'world record', 'professional runner' in this context, but also those who deny that even a small children can have their own will for long distance running. My daughter was 5 when she decided to run 4 miles to the end of hiking trip as "everyone is soo slow" and is running regulary ever since (now is 12) so I really had to study this topic of 'prodigys who disappear as teenagers' carefully. One thing that i noticed is that most of these kids end as far above average educated and successfull adults and that's more important than entry in obscure record book for age groups.

Nothing indicates he is making her do it.

Also, it is perfectly ok for BAA to set a minimum age limit.