Please quit calling the Jan. 6 protests an "insurrection." It was not.

Sally, you are simply out of your depth here. A presumption of innocence does not mean one is innocent. A presumption isn't a finding. It is simply a process that when charged with a criminal offence the charges must be proven.

To have engaged in an insurrection also doesn't require that one be charged with insurrection. The leaders of the Confederacy, who had engaged in an insurrection, were not charged with that or any criminal offence. (That was for political reasons). But they were barred from office by the 14th Amendment.

Jan 6 was an insurrection by any commonly accepted definition of the term, as the House has ruled. It also found that Trump had aided the insurrection.

The presumption of innocence requires the prosecution to prove you broke the law. If you are an illegal, YOUR BROKE THE LAW. But nice try, Agip.

It does not mean one is innocent. BUT it presumes one is innocent. Do you not understand that? John Wayne Gacy maybe was not innocent, but the American legal systems affords him the presumption of innocence. Got it?

that's not true Sally. If you request asylum at the border, then the law says you can stay in the US until your hearing.

So you will presume innocence and stop talking about the border.

No. I would not agree with that. But again, that has zip to do with this thread that YOU started. Are you feeling okay today? You seem very confused.

Sally, you still haven't got it. Trump is presumed innocent of any criminal charges made against him until proven by a court. He isn't charged with insurrection but Jan 6 was ruled an insurrection by the House and it found he aided the insurrection.

As I said earlier the Confederate leaders were not charged with insurrection or any criminal offence (unlike Trump) but were deemed to be disqualified from public office under the 14th Amendment because they had engaged in an insurrection. As Trump has. He doesn't have to be charged to be an insurrectionist.

The legal system does, which is why O.J. Simpson walks free today. The court of public opinion does not, which is why only a small percentage of Americans think it's awesome to take pics with O.J. at a bar in Summerlin and the rest of us are too disgusted to consider posing for a pic with a man we believe to be a murderer who got away with killing his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. Lee Harvey Oswald was never convicted of murdering JFK or J.D. Tippit, but unless you buy into a lot of conspiracy theory nonsense, he still murdered them on 11/22/63.

So if Jan 6 was not an insurrection, what do people think an insurrection looks like?

The leader of your cult tried to overthrow an elected government. He is nothing more than a criminal. Luckily a few people have already been convicted and sentenced to crimes against the federal government.

It appears the damage control is starting...

look, if we're talking factual as opposed to legal, this was a coup attempt. period. and surely you view "coup" as meaner than "insurrection."

are we really parsing dictionaries on the attempted violent reversal of an election? the man is lucky he's allowed to run for dogcatcher much less president, and not already in prison, for that stunt.

in terms of who has been charged with what, you fail to see where DOJ, contrary to stereotype, may be being fairly lenient in the naive hope that the country sees it as apolitical. which, in this political climate, is childish. half this country is so programmed they don't even think "trespass" is fair when the building was closed to the public.

let's not be naive kids here, they didn't break into congress to take a tour or even to erroneously use the facilities in offices. they were there for a purpose. that purpose was to either alter the election result or engage in violence against those who refused. those purposes failed because congress was evacuated before they arrived. sycophants now want to pretend like "nothing happened" because the plan failed. buzz. you know exactly what you wanted to happen.

it's ironic because as the votes were approaching some GOP congresspeople were getting behind the objections and fake electors thing, but after the horror of what happened, key leaders bailed. trump per usual assured his own failure. just like the man despite a weakened biden can't shut up from being a racist or saying obnoxious things about dictatorship now. the man is undisciplined and a poor planner. but then the people who think he ran the economy well have forgotten the ditch he left it in.

Sally, please quit calling that an erection. It is not.

Am I the only one amused that Sally is one of our Trumpers that refuses to read any court filings and indictments?

Yet in this thread she is pretending to have a thorough knowledge of the court opinions and that is her only reason why she thinks the insurrection was only a single event protest that got a little out of hand.

do you really believe that in 1866, the "union" was like either (a) we don't care if jefferson davis or robert e. lee becomes president -- as long as they win the vote or (b) congress has to vote upfront on whether any confederate can run for so much as alabama hometown dogcatcher? on what planet do you live? this constitutional amendment was designed to make it easy to apply at any level and hard to get rid of. having been a rebel, decided by "somebody" government -- and at the time we were occupying the south -- if you ever want to run again, convince 2/3 of congress we can trust you. it is silly to argue we meant this to be hard to have happen and easy to get out of.

if you read the constitution, it says an insurrectionist can't hold federal or state office, and it says removing the insurrectionist label takes 2/3 of both houses. it does not say who can put the label on. and since the constitution says federal or state, this was meant to include state offices and elections. i seriously doubt they meant to require a congress vote on whether any confederate can run for an office. in the context of 1866 they probably assumed the military government had that handled. but if you wanted out from under it -- that is spelled out -- go to DC and beg for votes.

i fully expect for the supposed "strict constructionists" to read all manner of self serving junk into the text and to excise part of the amendment effectively out of existence without a new vote saying that.

the irony of strict construction and the recent attacks against "unenumerated" rights is this is a common law country (who believe in unwritten rights and progressive, fair judging) and the 9th amendment made clear our rights didn't have to be written down. it's basically degrading the judicial branch relative to the legislature to act like your job is just to carry out passed laws. cause the general idea on judges is not enough is written down to decide a lot of arguments.

I’m curious if any Trumpers realize that in Trumps case, Jan 6th was not an isolated event.
To the rubes that broke into the capitol it was just a one day event. And that is all they can be charged with.

But for Trump and his planners, Jan 6th was just a piece of his full blown conspiracy to commit crimes to stay in power illegally and to disrupt the transfer of power

I seriously believe Trumpers don’t get this. This thread is proof

I don't think ot got out of hand.

THe sole aim and purpose was to prevent the counting of votes thereby rendering thr incoming government powerless or ineffective or even illegal. Biden's admin. could have been time barred.

THey said exactly what they wanted to do at the Capitol.and marched to make sure it happened.

Luckily, they failed.

That seems to be a characteristic of all the Trump cult members on LRC. They haven't read ANY of the Indictments, Complaints, motions, Court orders, deposition transcripts, interview transcripts, evidence (texts, emails, etc. from the Trump conspirators), and GUILTY pleas, yet they feel confident that they know what they are talking about. AITR, Newman (he even brags about his ignorance), Kobbs, Nonyankee, a few others, probably including Sally. It's either the most desperate self-inflicted delusions on display, or they are truly illiterate retards. I think the former in most cases, since most appear to be able to read somewhat.