Toni Reavis’ line about taking baseball bats to each others legs in the final miles of that race will never leave my mind, what a race, those guys just wouldn’t’ give an inch, one of the best I’ve ever been privileged to see.
Prefontaine for sure. He had such a legendary status by the time he died. Kiptum had just stamped his authority with the WR and was on the up and up but didn’t have the same type of cult following as it was still so early in his career. Such a super tragic loss.
You guys keep comparing Kiptum to Pre. Please. Kiptum was one of the greatest marathoners the world has ever seen. He is the world record holder in the marathon. He had a good shot at winning golds in Paris and Los Angeles and of course might have been the first to break 2 hours in a legitimate race. He was undefeated in the marathon, never ran slower than 2:01:53. He has three of the top seven best times ever run in the marathon.
By strong contrast, Pre never set a world record, never won an Olympic medal. He was an also-ran in Munich. He is beloved for pushing the pace, a tactic that did not work in the biggest race of his life and which he pursued because his kick was inferior to those of other runners.
In the 5000, Pre was ranked 4th in the world in 1972, 5th in 1973, and 6th in 1974. In the 10000, he ranked 10th in the world in 1974. His best time, 13:21, is closer to the current women's WR than the current men's WR. He is the 925th best performer on the world list. Even with super shoes, I doubt he could've broken 13 minutes (something 128 people have done).
Pre was good for an American runner but likening him to Kiptum is absurd.
Also, Pre was drunk driving when he died. He has no one to blame but himself. We do not know the details of Kiptum's death, but I doubt he was drunk.
Very disrespectful comments. I think people's comparison Pre with Kiptum is age and car accident related. You don't have to pic apart and lay judgement of Pres accident being alcohol related
What if Ted Williams didn't lose those years fighting in WW2 and Korea?
With all respects to Kiptum, the real greatest what if is Jordan not retiring in 1993? Then again in 1998, but that is Jerry Krause's fault. Perhaps, Ali missing all those peak years. No WW2, a sub 4 would have happened in the 1940s. What about the 1980 Olympics?
What if Ted Williams didn't lose those years fighting in WW2 and Korea?
With all respects to Kiptum, the real greatest what if is Jordan not retiring in 1993? Then again in 1998, but that is Jerry Krause's fault. Perhaps, Ali missing all those peak years. No WW2, a sub 4 would have happened in the 1940s. What about the 1980 Olympics?
But Jordan is already considered great in every sense. Almost moreso because he retired, went playing baseball and came back to similar success. if he sticks around he wins a few more championships and perhaps retires a few years earlier.
Same with Ali, he gave up is prime years, and came back a resiliant punishment taking fighter rather than the lightning quick dancer he was. not good for his health, but a legend because of it. Not in spite of it.
Ted Williams, I know close to zero about but he came back and achieved success
If Ted, Muhammad and Mike all stick around they are just a bit more successful
WW2 not happening is almost too macro to be considered. Sport would be insignificant in comparison to the changed Geopolitical landscape we would be living in.
1980 Olympics hard to say. Would Yifter have not won a double keeping Ethopia at bay for a few years?
I've alread made this point but when Kipchoge went 1:59 at breaking 2, I thought it would stick more in the public consciousness. But as time as gone on its the expectation is that someone needs to do it "for real".
Kiptum would have been on the same level as Roger Bannister. I can't think of a better comparison, but now it'll never happen and Sub 2 will take another athlete of similar talent to rise. that could be a generation away in terms of running.
I think in terms of proximity to Paris and a legitimate shot at Sub 2, and how Kiptum was shaping up, this is like if Lebron televised "the decision" and died within a week, before even getting to Miami and all that came after. its desperate.
This post was edited 12 minutes after it was posted.
You guys keep comparing Kiptum to Pre. Please. Kiptum was one of the greatest marathoners the world has ever seen. He is the world record holder in the marathon. He had a good shot at winning golds in Paris and Los Angeles and of course might have been the first to break 2 hours in a legitimate race. He was undefeated in the marathon, never ran slower than 2:01:53. He has three of the top seven best times ever run in the marathon.
By strong contrast, Pre never set a world record, never won an Olympic medal. He was an also-ran in Munich. He is beloved for pushing the pace, a tactic that did not work in the biggest race of his life and which he pursued because his kick was inferior to those of other runners.
In the 5000, Pre was ranked 4th in the world in 1972, 5th in 1973, and 6th in 1974. In the 10000, he ranked 10th in the world in 1974. His best time, 13:21, is closer to the current women's WR than the current men's WR. He is the 925th best performer on the world list. Even with super shoes, I doubt he could've broken 13 minutes (something 128 people have done).
Pre was good for an American runner but likening him to Kiptum is absurd.
Also, Pre was drunk driving when he died. He has no one to blame but himself. We do not know the details of Kiptum's death, but I doubt he was drunk.
Very disrespectful comments. I think people's comparison Pre with Kiptum is age and car accident related. You don't have to pic apart and lay judgement of Pres accident being alcohol related
I'm not allowed to criticize someone who drives drunk?
Prefontaine wasn't in the same stratosphere as Kiptum.
He literally broke new ground in running, made Prefontaine look a hobby joggers in comparison
At one point Pre held every American track record from the 2mile to the 10,000m. He was America’s most all round dominant runner for a period of time. Kiptum ran 3 incredible marathons and got the world record. Both were incredibly dominant during their peak.
Very disrespectful comments. I think people's comparison Pre with Kiptum is age and car accident related. You don't have to pic apart and lay judgement of Pres accident being alcohol related
I'm not allowed to criticize someone who drives drunk?
If you're ok with the future complaining about your minor vices that has shifted into serious crimes, sure.
Prefontaine for sure. He had such a legendary status by the time he died. Kiptum had just stamped his authority with the WR and was on the up and up but didn’t have the same type of cult following as it was still so early in his career. Such a super tragic loss.
You guys keep comparing Kiptum to Pre. Please. Kiptum was one of the greatest marathoners the world has ever seen. He is the world record holder in the marathon. He had a good shot at winning golds in Paris and Los Angeles and of course might have been the first to break 2 hours in a legitimate race. He was undefeated in the marathon, never ran slower than 2:01:53. He has three of the top seven best times ever run in the marathon.
By strong contrast, Pre never set a world record, never won an Olympic medal. He was an also-ran in Munich. He is beloved for pushing the pace, a tactic that did not work in the biggest race of his life and which he pursued because his kick was inferior to those of other runners.
In the 5000, Pre was ranked 4th in the world in 1972, 5th in 1973, and 6th in 1974. In the 10000, he ranked 10th in the world in 1974. His best time, 13:21, is closer to the current women's WR than the current men's WR. He is the 925th best performer on the world list. Even with super shoes, I doubt he could've broken 13 minutes (something 128 people have done).
Pre was good for an American runner but likening him to Kiptum is absurd.
Also, Pre was drunk driving when he died. He has no one to blame but himself. We do not know the details of Kiptum's death, but I doubt he was drunk.
Did Pre bang your gf or something? Totally weird posts by you throughout this thread.
Pre, in his first crack at the 10,000, ran 27:43 one of the fastest times in history (The WR was 27:30), and did so on a windy day without any serious competition.
Pre, at the time he ran his mile PR, was the 6th fastest in history. This wasn't even his best or second best event.
He won three NCAA XC titles and four 5k titles. Never lost a race longer than 1 mile in NCAA competition on the track.
When Pre won the trials 5k in an American record (a trials record that lasted 40 years) he was at the time I believe the 3rd fastest ever.
I also find it strange you are saying he was an also-ran in the Munich 5k for finishing 4th, yet Kiptum (RIP) was never tested in Olympic competition. How many times have we seen medal favorites bomb and not be anywhere near the medals? ESPECIALLY in the marathon? Allllllll the time. Two notable examples from the marathon: Paul Tergat (WR holder) in Athens 2004, Paula Radcliffe (WR holder) in Athens 2004. Neither did better than Pre's 4th (Tergat was 10th, Radcliffe DNF).
Qualifying and finishing 4th counts for something. Especially being the youngest in the field and only 21 years old (3 years younger than Kiptum (RIP)).
Also LOL at comparing times from decades ago to the current all-time lists. Where does Bannister rank? Or Herb Elliott? Totally stupid analysis. You compare them against the standards of their time.
I also have read Lasse Viren's autobiography, someone who raced Pre several times and finished ahead of him in Munich. He had quite positive things to say about him and his abilities, unlike you.
With all respects to Kiptum, the real greatest what if is Jordan not retiring in 1993? Then again in 1998, but that is Jerry Krause's fault. Perhaps, Ali missing all those peak years. No WW2, a sub 4 would have happened in the 1940s. What about the 1980 Olympics?
But Jordan is already considered great in every sense. Almost moreso because he retired, went playing baseball and came back to similar success. if he sticks around he wins a few more championships and perhaps retires a few years earlier.
Same with Ali, he gave up is prime years, and came back a resiliant punishment taking fighter rather than the lightning quick dancer he was. not good for his health, but a legend because of it. Not in spite of it.
Ted Williams, I know close to zero about but he came back and achieved success
If Ted, Muhammad and Mike all stick around they are just a bit more successful
WW2 not happening is almost too macro to be considered. Sport would be insignificant in comparison to the changed Geopolitical landscape we would be living in.
1980 Olympics hard to say. Would Yifter have not won a double keeping Ethopia at bay for a few years?
I've alread made this point but when Kipchoge went 1:59 at breaking 2, I thought it would stick more in the public consciousness. But as time as gone on its the expectation is that someone needs to do it "for real".
Kiptum would have been on the same level as Roger Bannister. I can't think of a better comparison, but now it'll never happen and Sub 2 will take another athlete of similar talent to rise. that could be a generation away in terms of running.
I think in terms of proximity to Paris and a legitimate shot at Sub 2, and how Kiptum was shaping up, this is like if Lebron televised "the decision" and died within a week, before even getting to Miami and all that came after. its desperate.
I think it will still happen. We have yet to see Kiplimo in a marathon but his half and overall talent level means he could be capable.
Certainly not the greatest "what-if" in sports, but John Woodruff comes to mind as a big "what-if." He won the 1936 800m Olympic gold as a freshman in college (albeit he was 21 at the time). By 1940, the world was at war and Woodruff was in the army. He would have been ages 25 and 29 in the 1940 and '44 Games. Only four men have ever won two 800m gold medals; nobody ever won three. Could Woodruff have won three Olympic golds? We might be calling him the greatest 800m runner in history right now.
World War II ended the Olympic dreams for many, many athletes.
Len Bias and Ernie Davis are certainly good comparisons. Salvador Sanchez maybe, too. All were great and had a lot left to give, but it's hard to argue any of them would have been indisputably as good in their respective sports as Kiptum was in his.
Comparisons to Clemente or Gehrig are not so apt. Everyone knew how good those guys were. Gehrig probably wouldve hit 3000 hits. Clemente did. Both had long, wonderful careers, but their deaths are more John Lennon. Kiptum's is more Buddy Holly.
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