Interesting, have the utmost respect for Joe Newton, but I don't know how I feel about that! Maybe some kids wanna peak in college, or post-college (aka, pro).
Lots of glory in h.s. state championships though, I get it. I've always thought it's better to aim to peak in your mid-20s (men), and early or mid 30s (women). I'm not Joe Newton though, so what do I know? /s.
Would you rather be the kid than ran 17:00 in hs, 16:00 in college, and then Peaked at 15:30 at 25 or the kid that ran 16:15 in hs, 15:45 in college and then never ran faster? The first kid struggles to make variants while the second would have gotten to run the state meet. Peaking at 25 is great for the couple dozen guys who are out to make Olympic teams. For 99%, you want to peak in HS because that is about as high of level that your talent will allow you to be competitive at.
Now you can take this to stupid levels. It is one thing to build kids up to say 60-70mpw over 4 years. Another when you start talking 100mpw and some of the year round intensity programs…
There’s no such thing as training to peak in HS or college. It comes down to physical maturation and there guys that train extremely hard in HS that continue to improve in college and others that train moderately that don’t improve. Your example is irrelevant as a 17:00 HSer is not going to run in college.
As someone from IL who loves XC I really enjoy the York discussions. When I was in HS the York program was the standard in the state of IL. I think most runners in the state looked up to them and probably wished they could run for Mr. Newton. What an incredible man and coach he was. I think it's pretty evident that he was the difference maker in that program and the proof of that is in the post Newton era. I mean no disrespect to Kern, because he is probably a very good coach in his own right. Mr. Newton is just one of the GOATs!
"Yeah, I don’t doubt they were friends, but Sage wasted an opportunity to run close to 8:30 that day."
Not sure I agree. Sage won both the 3200 and the 1600 that day (4.08), while Tim Hobbs won the 800, Adam Palumbo placed in the 3200, Pete Cioni placed in the 1600, York won the 4x8 and Terre Mastrino did well in the 100 and 200- leading to the only state title in Track and Field York ever won.
For anyone interested and with time, here is the entire 2000 state meet.
"Yeah, I don’t doubt they were friends, but Sage wasted an opportunity to run close to 8:30 that day."
Not sure I agree. Sage won both the 3200 and the 1600 that day (4.08), while Tim Hobbs won the 800, Adam Palumbo placed in the 3200, Pete Cioni placed in the 1600, York won the 4x8 and Terre Mastrino did well in the 100 and 200- leading to the only state title in Track and Field York ever won.
For anyone interested and with time, here is the entire 2000 state meet.
Who Don Sage was has been pretty well covered I suppose, but the thread reminds me of a book I bought for my son when he was getting into running around 2007 or so - "Running with the Champions." It came out around the year 2000 and talked about different elite US men and women from the past, but lamented that US running stank other than Bob Kennedy (at the time of publication anyway). But in the foreword it said something about how maybe we'll be great again with this new crop of studs we have in the high school ranks right now and it explicitly named Ritz, Webb, Hall, and Don Sage. My son actually asked me as he read it, "who the f***" is Don Sage," which is the first time I recall hearing him say that censored word. Because as he got into the sport, his early heroes in the pro ranks were naturally "the big three" but by then Sage was nowhere to be found.
When I was in HS, circa 1994, my track / XC coach loaned me a copy of The Long Green Line by Joe Newton which detailed the workouts of many of his York students training over the years. It included the mileage and some staggering stats about the most prolific runners. At the top of the list was Don Sage. My memory 25 years on might be off, but I'm recalling he ran like 2200 miles in the off season. More than any of the otherwise also astounding guys. This was certainly Don Sage, but blew my mind to see the name again. Moreso that I remembered it!
Virgin set the two mile record at 8:41, Sage set a somewhat obscure NFHS 3200 record at 8:42. However, Gerry Lindgren ran 8:40i for the two mile and Dave Merrick ran 8:43i but both times were in open competition and not high school only.
Jeff Nelson ran 8:36 for 2 miles. Hard to take a 3200m record slower than that too seriously. It would be like getting a national record for running a 3:57 1600 cause nobody has a split for webs or Ryuns runs…
I suggest you call the NFHS with your complaint. There were no en route records when Nelson ran. Sage set the record for 3200 at that time, no one claimed his time was faster than Nelson's, which by the way was run in open competition and not a high school only race. The NFHS recognizes high school only times.
When I was in HS, circa 1994... This was certainly Don Sage, but blew my mind to see the name again. Moreso that I remembered it!
It also blows my mind that you remember receiving a book in 1994 that detailed the history of training of Don Sage, who competed for York from 1996 to 2000.
I have talked to some guys who race against Daniel Simmons, and they say he runs 90 miles per week. Does anyone know if this is true because I always thought American Fork runners did 60-65mpw. Either way mileage is an indivi...
Greenman, your old bias is showing a little too much. Forget about Nelson whose two mile is so superior to Sage's 3200 no matter where or how it was run it is laughable to compare. It converts down to 8:33.0 or so for 3200
But Virgin's two mile is also far superior in absurdly challenging heat and conditions, it;s also not even close. Sage's 3200 converts to 8:46 yards. , Virgin ran 8:40.9 for two miles..in 1973? That converts down to 8:37.7 or so for 3200M.
Listing Sage as the Ill. HS 3200 record holder , even though technically accurate is and has been a a misleading number to many youngsters who did not know legacy of Virgin who was an absurd HS and Up Runner.
It is Virgin who is commentating on the race I posted above. He does note that Sage's run is amazing, but does not surpass Virgin's own (nor would Don ever claim it did, to be sure)- but credit where it is due, Sage ran a great race. As did Tim Keller.
Random, but the Illinois state meet when Sage crushed was available on directtv where I lived. It was the first time I can remember watching a HS meet on TV. His two mile absolutely blew my mind.
The great Don Sage was after my time, but I ran for a competitor of York’s in the early 70’s. My school was in the Northwest Suburbs. I wouldn’t be surprised if back then York did run more miles than those being mentioned here. At least that was what was on the grapevine at the time. For what it is worth, my school did the 1000 Mile Club thing too. Our coach would map out a specific hundred days when we were supposed to run a minimum of 1000 miles. We had to keep a running journal (usually a spiral bound notebook) and turn it in at the end of the summer. As I remember, the program overlapped the track season by just a little bit and ended the last day before school started in the Fall. Sophomores, Juniors, and Seniors were expected to get in their 1000 miles, but almost everyone was over 1000. For example, my senior year we had fourteen guys who exceeded 1200 miles. Which was pretty normal for our team. Incoming Freshman typically did 500 Mile Club. Our biggest miles would come from our two-week, end of summer training camp when we would do 140+ per week. I imagine York did similar miles in the 70's. We would do our camps in Northern Wisconsin or Boulder. Our teams weren't especially talented so we tried to compensate with miles.
From what I could find, the top high school miler in 1994 was Meb, who won the National Scholastic Invitational mile that year in 4:05, with Seneca Lassiter second in 4:07.
I think it’s difficult to pinpoint one runner or year as the beginning of the renaissance of high school miling or, more broadly, US distance running. Many will understandably say it started with the Big 3 in the 2000-2001 school year, but there were notable runners who starred in the decade before them such as those mentioned in this thread plus Andy Powell (4:02 mile as a high schooler in 1999), Jorge Torres, Adam Goucher, and others.
At the pro level, we had Bob Kennedy, Todd Williams, and Marc Davis running well in the mid to late 1990s. Ritz has stated that Kennedy inspired him. So the Big 3 were inspired by their predecessors, who were inspired by those who came before them. It’s a lineage.
The most significant development in the renaissance of American distance running was probably the internet. Here’s what Kennedy said about it, when commenting on how high school distance running changed in the 25 years since he had competed in high school:
“Twenty-five years ago there was a big void in information, meaning we'd be waiting for Track & Field News to come out every month before you knew what the guys in the rest of the country were doing. Now it's instantaneous with the Internet of course. So, what I think that has done is raise the level and depth of competition at the high school level just because you know what you have to do. Now I know I need to run 9:10, 9:05, 8:55, whatever, and that changes how you approach your training -- and your racing, ultimately.”
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