Intrigue in Flagstaff wrote:
Have you considered that Smith might have asked Brosnan to Flagstaff as a consultant? Perhaps to help turn around the underperforming Sahlman brothers?
ya right.
Intrigue in Flagstaff wrote:
Have you considered that Smith might have asked Brosnan to Flagstaff as a consultant? Perhaps to help turn around the underperforming Sahlman brothers?
ya right.
brosnan still here wrote:
as per his instagram. for night track practice
Does Brosnan still wear his 007 outfit?
That athletes are special but they weren’t running all time fast!!!! Distance coaches are the worst. We will do whatever we can to discredit those around us because our insecurities. It’s like saying Mike Smith, Dave Smith, and Heines are not that good of coaches because they inherited kids who were state champions and super fast before coming to college. Ignorant arguments…. I guess it is to hard to say great job coach hope you get another shot at the collegiate and or pro level.
He said that Brosnan takes full credit. Good coaches don't do that.
You guys feed his ego with every one of these threads about a short time HS coach that became a short time ASSISTANT coach and now is a nobody.
I don't mind. He accomplished a lot in a short period of time. It has to be very difficult for him these days to be completely out of the sport. He will likely never recover.
NO NEED wrote:
That athletes are special but they weren’t running all time fast!!!! Distance coaches are the worst. We will do whatever we can to discredit those around us because our insecurities. It’s like saying Mike Smith, Dave Smith, and Heines are not that good of coaches because they inherited kids who were state champions and super fast before coming to college. Ignorant arguments…. I guess it is to hard to say great job coach hope you get another shot at the collegiate and or pro level.
It would be like if you were comparing those great coaches against coaches who didn’t also have the opportunity to recruit the best athletes. Most high school coaches don’t control who shows up to the team.
While it is possble to make over $100k per year as a teacher in CA ( there is a NORCAL district that tops out at over $193K AFTER 28 years), it is very hard to do so without a lot of yrs in a district. At the end of 2025, the LAUSD will finally have a salary after 10 yrs of service that is over $100K. While I don't know of Brosnan's situation, I doubt that he has that many rs of service - and many/most districts only allow you to apply 7-12 yrs of service from prior work when you are hired into their district.
I saw Northport HS, LI, NY put 3 guys under 9 in the same race at the Outdoor Nationals in NC.... twin brothers and Mikey Brannigan...full two miles, not 3200
To Mister Carter, they simply did not have more talent coming in than any other program ever. That is just total nonsense. They took quite good middle school kids and made them 4 flat and better kids. Who does that in numbers even close to Brosnan? There have only been about 20-30 kids nationally ever who have run those times in the mile/1500m. I previously brought up various SoCal freshmen that were similar in times to Lex and Leo in xc who were far, far outpaced by them later on. It was a question of development, not initial ability. There are sets of brothers at every single school in the country every year. You just don't want to believe anyone can professionalize a high school program and sell them on the workouts and do on a regular basis stuff that very few high school programs have ever done in their history with any athletes. But I then looked at all the top ten athletic.net distance boys for middle school, and while the rankings include lots of high schools mistakenly, they do get lots of the top middle schoolers. The vast majority do not become the leading national high school performers. Most names for middle school distance runners, going from 800m to 3200m over the past ten years, I had not heard of. There were a few Belen Jesuit guys (already training like collegians by eighth grade), like Joshua Ruiz and Marcelo Mantecon; there was Rheinhardt Harrison; there was Patrick Koon; there was Keegan Smith; there was Hunter Jones; there was Zack Munson. But the vast majority are not or did not become stars in high school. Not a single Newbury Park High School runner that I have heard of appears at all on the 800, 1500, 1600, or 3200m lists from 2012 through 2021. Micah Dickran finally appears in 2022 with a 4:17 on the 1500m list. That is it. So, this supposedly legendary middle school/club group that Brosnan came to coach did not have one appearance on the athletic.net top ten lists from 2012 through 2021. So much for the legendary talent. But even if they dominated those lists, it wouldn't have meant all that much for high school because coaches have to develop the talent or it goes wasted.
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#52
9 years ago 08/22/2014 9:15pm EDT re: no one
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High Schools with 3 sub 9:00 2-milers (8:56.87 for 3200m)
Ranked by time of 3rd fastest runner
#1 Hammond HS, Hammond, IN
#2 Jesuit HS, Carmichael, CA
#3 Northport HS, Northport, NY
#4 Mead HS, Spokane, WA
#5 Woodlands HS (called McCullough pre-1997), The Woodlands, TX
#6 South Eugene HS, Eugene, OR
#7 Dexter HS, Dexter, MI
#8 Edison HS, Huntington Beach, CA
No school has more than 3 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
36 schools have 2 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
There are 18 schools with 3 or more under 9:00 for 3200 meters
Mead WA has 6
No one has 5
Jesuit CA, North Central WA, and Northport NY have 4
67 schools have 2 or more
---
Add at least Lasalle (RI, 3 sub-9 3200m in one year) and Newbury Park (6 sub 9).
So, Newbury Park in Brosnan's six or so years had as many as any other program in history and the quality of Brosnan's sub-9 guys was far higher than any other. Nico Young (7:56.97, 2xnational hs xc champ), Lex Young (7:57/8:35 3200), 13:34 NHSR), Leo Young (3:40/8:39, 16th World Jr XC), and Colin (3:56/8:33, xc nat champ) and Aaron Sahlman (8:03, xc nat champ) all ran 3k's or 3200/2M's in the 8:30s range. No other high school has ever had two guys in the 8:30s before. Brosnan had five. If you look at the middle school rankings, no great future NP guys are on there at all. You only find an NP guy in Micah Dickran for 2022.
2017 top ten middle school 1600 Meters (there may be some errors in the rankings)
1. 11 Miguel Gonzalez 4:30.05PR IL Aurora (East)
2. 11 Sean Adams 4:30.67PR IL Batavia
3. 11 Shane Knanishu 4:31.16 IL Batavia Jun 02
4. 11 Abraham Garcia 4:36.21 KS Hugoton
5. 15 8 Judson Greer 4:36.45PR TX Melissa
6. 15 8 Colin Peattie 4:37.32PR CA RJ Fisher
7. 8 Austin Montini 4:38.13 FL Oak Hall
8. 8 Dereje Himbago 4:39.3hPR OK Guymon
9. 8 Luke Lambert 4:41.18PR TX Cooper (Wylie)
10. 14 8 Ayden Schilb 4:42.0hPR AZ Desert Sky
2019 top ten
1600 Meters
1. Levi Jackson 4:22.88 WA East Valley
2. Luke Crossley 4:31.21 UT Roy
3. Hunter Jones 4:32.00 MI Benzie Central
4. Nicholas Murray 4:33.54 UT Layton
5. Braydon Honsinger 4:35.21PR MI Freeland
6. Ethan Peterson 4:35.99PR UT Farmington
7. Tim Clark 4:36.05PR UT South Davis
8. Quintin Lowe 4:36.48
9. Colton Thress 4:36.53PR OH General Sherman
10. William McCoy 4:36.57PR CA
xzcvzcvx wrote:
To Mister Carter, they simply did not have more talent coming in than any other program ever. That is just total nonsense. They took quite good middle school kids and made them 4 flat and better kids. Who does that in numbers even close to Brosnan? There have only been about 20-30 kids nationally ever who have run those times in the mile/1500m. I previously brought up various SoCal freshmen that were similar in times to Lex and Leo in xc who were far, far outpaced by them later on. It was a question of development, not initial ability. There are sets of brothers at every single school in the country every year. You just don't want to believe anyone can professionalize a high school program and sell them on the workouts and do on a regular basis stuff that very few high school programs have ever done in their history with any athletes. But I then looked at all the top ten athletic.net distance boys for middle school, and while the rankings include lots of high schools mistakenly, they do get lots of the top middle schoolers. The vast majority do not become the leading national high school performers. Most names for middle school distance runners, going from 800m to 3200m over the past ten years, I had not heard of. There were a few Belen Jesuit guys (already training like collegians by eighth grade), like Joshua Ruiz and Marcelo Mantecon; there was Rheinhardt Harrison; there was Patrick Koon; there was Keegan Smith; there was Hunter Jones; there was Zack Munson. But the vast majority are not or did not become stars in high school. Not a single Newbury Park High School runner that I have heard of appears at all on the 800, 1500, 1600, or 3200m lists from 2012 through 2021. Micah Dickran finally appears in 2022 with a 4:17 on the 1500m list. That is it. So, this supposedly legendary middle school/club group that Brosnan came to coach did not have one appearance on the athletic.net top ten lists from 2012 through 2021. So much for the legendary talent. But even if they dominated those lists, it wouldn't have meant all that much for high school because coaches have to develop the talent or it goes wasted.
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#52
9 years ago 08/22/2014 9:15pm EDT re: no one
ReplyBack To Index
High Schools with 3 sub 9:00 2-milers (8:56.87 for 3200m)
Ranked by time of 3rd fastest runner
#1 Hammond HS, Hammond, IN
#2 Jesuit HS, Carmichael, CA
#3 Northport HS, Northport, NY
#4 Mead HS, Spokane, WA
#5 Woodlands HS (called McCullough pre-1997), The Woodlands, TX
#6 South Eugene HS, Eugene, OR
#7 Dexter HS, Dexter, MI
#8 Edison HS, Huntington Beach, CA
No school has more than 3 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
36 schools have 2 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
There are 18 schools with 3 or more under 9:00 for 3200 meters
Mead WA has 6
No one has 5
Jesuit CA, North Central WA, and Northport NY have 4
67 schools have 2 or more---
Add at least Lasalle (RI, 3 sub-9 3200m in one year) and Newbury Park (6 sub 9).
So, Newbury Park in Brosnan's six or so years had as many as any other program in history and the quality of Brosnan's sub-9 guys was far higher than any other. Nico Young (7:56.97, 2xnational hs xc champ), Lex Young (7:57/8:35 3200), 13:34 NHSR), Leo Young (3:40/8:39, 16th World Jr XC), and Colin (3:56/8:33, xc nat champ) and Aaron Sahlman (8:03, xc nat champ) all ran 3k's or 3200/2M's in the 8:30s range. No other high school has ever had two guys in the 8:30s before. Brosnan had five. If you look at the middle school rankings, no great future NP guys are on there at all. You only find an NP guy in Micah Dickran for 2022.
2017 top ten middle school 1600 Meters (there may be some errors in the rankings)
1. 11 Miguel Gonzalez 4:30.05PR IL Aurora (East)
2. 11 Sean Adams 4:30.67PR IL Batavia
3. 11 Shane Knanishu 4:31.16 IL Batavia Jun 02
4. 11 Abraham Garcia 4:36.21 KS Hugoton
5. 15 8 Judson Greer 4:36.45PR TX Melissa
6. 15 8 Colin Peattie 4:37.32PR CA RJ Fisher
7. 8 Austin Montini 4:38.13 FL Oak Hall
8. 8 Dereje Himbago 4:39.3hPR OK Guymon
9. 8 Luke Lambert 4:41.18PR TX Cooper (Wylie)
10. 14 8 Ayden Schilb 4:42.0hPR AZ Desert Sky2019 top ten
1600 Meters
1. Levi Jackson 4:22.88 WA East Valley
2. Luke Crossley 4:31.21 UT Roy
3. Hunter Jones 4:32.00 MI Benzie Central
4. Nicholas Murray 4:33.54 UT Layton
5. Braydon Honsinger 4:35.21PR MI Freeland
6. Ethan Peterson 4:35.99PR UT Farmington
7. Tim Clark 4:36.05PR UT South Davis
8. Quintin Lowe 4:36.48
9. Colton Thress 4:36.53PR OH General Sherman
10. William McCoy 4:36.57PR CA
TLDR
Well, no matter how great of a coach someone is their actions matter.
I saw Sean drop out of his race at club nationals, while in top 5 for his team, because he felt he was running poorly, not because he was injured. Then after his wifes race he admonished her publically for her poor running effort/performance in her race. And continued to do so the remainder of the day.I don't care how many sub 9 guys, championships he wins, etc, From what I witnessed he is a crappy human. And no amount of "he is a great coach" can override that.
xzcvzcvx wrote:
To Mister Carter, they simply did not have more talent coming in than any other program ever. That is just total nonsense. They took quite good middle school kids and made them 4 flat and better kids. Who does that in numbers even close to Brosnan? There have only been about 20-30 kids nationally ever who have run those times in the mile/1500m. I previously brought up various SoCal freshmen that were similar in times to Lex and Leo in xc who were far, far outpaced by them later on. It was a question of development, not initial ability. There are sets of brothers at every single school in the country every year. You just don't want to believe anyone can professionalize a high school program and sell them on the workouts and do on a regular basis stuff that very few high school programs have ever done in their history with any athletes. But I then looked at all the top ten athletic.net distance boys for middle school, and while the rankings include lots of high schools mistakenly, they do get lots of the top middle schoolers. The vast majority do not become the leading national high school performers. Most names for middle school distance runners, going from 800m to 3200m over the past ten years, I had not heard of. There were a few Belen Jesuit guys (already training like collegians by eighth grade), like Joshua Ruiz and Marcelo Mantecon; there was Rheinhardt Harrison; there was Patrick Koon; there was Keegan Smith; there was Hunter Jones; there was Zack Munson. But the vast majority are not or did not become stars in high school. Not a single Newbury Park High School runner that I have heard of appears at all on the 800, 1500, 1600, or 3200m lists from 2012 through 2021. Micah Dickran finally appears in 2022 with a 4:17 on the 1500m list. That is it. So, this supposedly legendary middle school/club group that Brosnan came to coach did not have one appearance on the athletic.net top ten lists from 2012 through 2021. So much for the legendary talent. But even if they dominated those lists, it wouldn't have meant all that much for high school because coaches have to develop the talent or it goes wasted.
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#52
9 years ago 08/22/2014 9:15pm EDT re: no one
ReplyBack To Index
High Schools with 3 sub 9:00 2-milers (8:56.87 for 3200m)
Ranked by time of 3rd fastest runner
#1 Hammond HS, Hammond, IN
#2 Jesuit HS, Carmichael, CA
#3 Northport HS, Northport, NY
#4 Mead HS, Spokane, WA
#5 Woodlands HS (called McCullough pre-1997), The Woodlands, TX
#6 South Eugene HS, Eugene, OR
#7 Dexter HS, Dexter, MI
#8 Edison HS, Huntington Beach, CA
No school has more than 3 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
36 schools have 2 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
There are 18 schools with 3 or more under 9:00 for 3200 meters
Mead WA has 6
No one has 5
Jesuit CA, North Central WA, and Northport NY have 4
67 schools have 2 or more---
Add at least Lasalle (RI, 3 sub-9 3200m in one year) and Newbury Park (6 sub 9).
So, Newbury Park in Brosnan's six or so years had as many as any other program in history and the quality of Brosnan's sub-9 guys was far higher than any other. Nico Young (7:56.97, 2xnational hs xc champ), Lex Young (7:57/8:35 3200), 13:34 NHSR), Leo Young (3:40/8:39, 16th World Jr XC), and Colin (3:56/8:33, xc nat champ) and Aaron Sahlman (8:03, xc nat champ) all ran 3k's or 3200/2M's in the 8:30s range. No other high school has ever had two guys in the 8:30s before. Brosnan had five. If you look at the middle school rankings, no great future NP guys are on there at all. You only find an NP guy in Micah Dickran for 2022.
2017 top ten middle school 1600 Meters (there may be some errors in the rankings)
1. 11 Miguel Gonzalez 4:30.05PR IL Aurora (East)
2. 11 Sean Adams 4:30.67PR IL Batavia
3. 11 Shane Knanishu 4:31.16 IL Batavia Jun 02
4. 11 Abraham Garcia 4:36.21 KS Hugoton
5. 15 8 Judson Greer 4:36.45PR TX Melissa
6. 15 8 Colin Peattie 4:37.32PR CA RJ Fisher
7. 8 Austin Montini 4:38.13 FL Oak Hall
8. 8 Dereje Himbago 4:39.3hPR OK Guymon
9. 8 Luke Lambert 4:41.18PR TX Cooper (Wylie)
10. 14 8 Ayden Schilb 4:42.0hPR AZ Desert Sky2019 top ten
1600 Meters
1. Levi Jackson 4:22.88 WA East Valley
2. Luke Crossley 4:31.21 UT Roy
3. Hunter Jones 4:32.00 MI Benzie Central
4. Nicholas Murray 4:33.54 UT Layton
5. Braydon Honsinger 4:35.21PR MI Freeland
6. Ethan Peterson 4:35.99PR UT Farmington
7. Tim Clark 4:36.05PR UT South Davis
8. Quintin Lowe 4:36.48
9. Colton Thress 4:36.53PR OH General Sherman
10. William McCoy 4:36.57PR CA
Athletic.net does not do a comprehensive list of the best middle school kids. There a bunch of different categories and age groups like middle school, club, by grade and by age. However, I will list the times of the incoming 8th graders while the Sahlmans and Youngs were at NP. NP didn’t have this kind of incoming talent before Brosnan got there, which is why they weren’t as good. There has NEVER been a team with that much incoming talent. You find a team with similar talent, EVER. Try, but you can’t. For some reason, you can’t admit the amount of talent at Newbury Park was unprecedented during the Brosnan era. He did a very good job getting a lot out the talent and not all coaches could, but come on, bring yourself to admit it was a gold mine. Can you do that?
Here are the times. Find me EVER on ANY team this kind of incoming talent at one time. I’ll wait.
Colin Sahlman 4:48 1600
Aaron Sahlman 4:46 1600
Lex Young – 4:45 1600
Leo Young – 4:55 1600
Nicholas Goldstein 4:41 1600
Daniel Appleford 4:52 1600
Zaki Blunt 4:55 1600
Hector Marinez 4:22 1500
Aaron Cantu 4:29 1500
Dev Doshi 5:00 (7th grade. COVID year was 8th grade)
actions matter wrote:
Well, no matter how great of a coach someone is their actions matter.
I saw Sean drop out of his race at club nationals, while in top 5 for his team, because he felt he was running poorly, not because he was injured. Then after his wifes race he admonished her publically for her poor running effort/performance in her race. And continued to do so the remainder of the day.I don't care how many sub 9 guys, championships he wins, etc, From what I witnessed he is a crappy human. And no amount of "he is a great coach" can override that.
We could all list examples of Brosnan’s actions that show what kind of human he is, however they would just be removed because he spends all of his free time (which he now has plenty of) complaining to the mods to have them removed.
xzcvzcvx wrote:
To Mister Carter, they simply did not have more talent coming in than any other program ever. That is just total nonsense. They took quite good middle school kids and made them 4 flat and better kids. Who does that in numbers even close to Brosnan? There have only been about 20-30 kids nationally ever who have run those times in the mile/1500m. I previously brought up various SoCal freshmen that were similar in times to Lex and Leo in xc who were far, far outpaced by them later on. It was a question of development, not initial ability. There are sets of brothers at every single school in the country every year. You just don't want to believe anyone can professionalize a high school program and sell them on the workouts and do on a regular basis stuff that very few high school programs have ever done in their history with any athletes. But I then looked at all the top ten athletic.net distance boys for middle school, and while the rankings include lots of high schools mistakenly, they do get lots of the top middle schoolers. The vast majority do not become the leading national high school performers. Most names for middle school distance runners, going from 800m to 3200m over the past ten years, I had not heard of. There were a few Belen Jesuit guys (already training like collegians by eighth grade), like Joshua Ruiz and Marcelo Mantecon; there was Rheinhardt Harrison; there was Patrick Koon; there was Keegan Smith; there was Hunter Jones; there was Zack Munson. But the vast majority are not or did not become stars in high school. Not a single Newbury Park High School runner that I have heard of appears at all on the 800, 1500, 1600, or 3200m lists from 2012 through 2021. Micah Dickran finally appears in 2022 with a 4:17 on the 1500m list. That is it. So, this supposedly legendary middle school/club group that Brosnan came to coach did not have one appearance on the athletic.net top ten lists from 2012 through 2021. So much for the legendary talent. But even if they dominated those lists, it wouldn't have meant all that much for high school because coaches have to develop the talent or it goes wasted.
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#52
9 years ago 08/22/2014 9:15pm EDT re: no one
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High Schools with 3 sub 9:00 2-milers (8:56.87 for 3200m)
Ranked by time of 3rd fastest runner
#1 Hammond HS, Hammond, IN
#2 Jesuit HS, Carmichael, CA
#3 Northport HS, Northport, NY
#4 Mead HS, Spokane, WA
#5 Woodlands HS (called McCullough pre-1997), The Woodlands, TX
#6 South Eugene HS, Eugene, OR
#7 Dexter HS, Dexter, MI
#8 Edison HS, Huntington Beach, CA
No school has more than 3 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
36 schools have 2 under 9:00 for 2 Miles
There are 18 schools with 3 or more under 9:00 for 3200 meters
Mead WA has 6
No one has 5
Jesuit CA, North Central WA, and Northport NY have 4
67 schools have 2 or more---
Add at least Lasalle (RI, 3 sub-9 3200m in one year) and Newbury Park (6 sub 9).
So, Newbury Park in Brosnan's six or so years had as many as any other program in history and the quality of Brosnan's sub-9 guys was far higher than any other. Nico Young (7:56.97, 2xnational hs xc champ), Lex Young (7:57/8:35 3200), 13:34 NHSR), Leo Young (3:40/8:39, 16th World Jr XC), and Colin (3:56/8:33, xc nat champ) and Aaron Sahlman (8:03, xc nat champ) all ran 3k's or 3200/2M's in the 8:30s range. No other high school has ever had two guys in the 8:30s before. Brosnan had five. If you look at the middle school rankings, no great future NP guys are on there at all. You only find an NP guy in Micah Dickran for 2022.
2017 top ten middle school 1600 Meters (there may be some errors in the rankings)
1. 11 Miguel Gonzalez 4:30.05PR IL Aurora (East)
2. 11 Sean Adams 4:30.67PR IL Batavia
3. 11 Shane Knanishu 4:31.16 IL Batavia Jun 02
4. 11 Abraham Garcia 4:36.21 KS Hugoton
5. 15 8 Judson Greer 4:36.45PR TX Melissa
6. 15 8 Colin Peattie 4:37.32PR CA RJ Fisher
7. 8 Austin Montini 4:38.13 FL Oak Hall
8. 8 Dereje Himbago 4:39.3hPR OK Guymon
9. 8 Luke Lambert 4:41.18PR TX Cooper (Wylie)
10. 14 8 Ayden Schilb 4:42.0hPR AZ Desert Sky2019 top ten
1600 Meters
1. Levi Jackson 4:22.88 WA East Valley
2. Luke Crossley 4:31.21 UT Roy
3. Hunter Jones 4:32.00 MI Benzie Central
4. Nicholas Murray 4:33.54 UT Layton
5. Braydon Honsinger 4:35.21PR MI Freeland
6. Ethan Peterson 4:35.99PR UT Farmington
7. Tim Clark 4:36.05PR UT South Davis
8. Quintin Lowe 4:36.48
9. Colton Thress 4:36.53PR OH General Sherman
10. William McCoy 4:36.57PR CA
And it was only 2 sets of brothers.
- I hope Brosnan is already under contract - here -
You don’t what you got till it’s gone. Might be that good.
Those are pretty decent prospects but none of them rate very highly on the middle school lists. Goldstein, who was pretty good in hs but I think injured, at 4:41 and Hector Martinez at 4:22 1500, are the only guys on that list who would have a shot at top ten some years. So, you can see those lists of middle school times for future NP stars and you don't see superstar in any way. 4:55 for Leo Young? He went on to run 3:39 in hs while still coached by Brosnan. It's all about development.
xzcvzcvx wrote:
Those are pretty decent prospects but none of them rate very highly on the middle school lists. Goldstein, who was pretty good in hs but I think injured, at 4:41 and Hector Martinez at 4:22 1500, are the only guys on that list who would have a shot at top ten some years. So, you can see those lists of middle school times for future NP stars and you don't see superstar in any way. 4:55 for Leo Young? He went on to run 3:39 in hs while still coached by Brosnan. It's all about development.
STOP IT! These were middle school kids that played soccer and goofed around in track. They were total studs. It’s not that hard to say they were loaded. Say it with me. THEY WERE LOADED! If not, find another team with that much talent incoming. The beat incoming kids, with good coaching has a high probability of being the best high school team.
Of course he did a good job. Also, having that many good kids together, pushing each other was a factor. There were a lot of factors and yes, Brosnan’s coaching was one of them.
Can you find it deep down in yourself to say it was a once in a lifetime group of kids, highlighted by two sets of brothers or are you going to insist on saying it was all Brosnan’s brilliance, which for some reason was never shown in his life before his NP experience or since he’s left NP.
The five best guys were two sets of brothers. Aschbrenner was among the fastest ever in the 3200m at the time he ran that 8:44. He also had Appleford run low 8:50s and the same program, with his wife co-coaching and with Brosnan still writing workouts, also got Doshi to low 9.
You're the one who said they were the most talented middle school group ever. Prove it. 4:40s and 4:50s guys are a dime a dozen in SoCal. The Youngs were running track years before 8th grade but not with impressive results. The only way you know they were "super talented" is by what they ran after Brosnan was coaching them for years.