The Ethiopian and Kenyan High Schoolers could probably win NCAA, Example Ethiopia had 5 Girls ages 16-18 who ran between 14:16 was The Fastest and 14:46 was The Slowest in the 5000 on the Track THIS YEAR. Same with the Men Eliud Kipchoge was World Champion at age 18 had he decided to go Run NCAA he undoubtably would have dominated.
Whine about the Age, but they would win at any age.
No problem. Let them come here and race in college, and then when they turn 24 they are done. No fuss, no whining.
According to the University of Utah, 26 is the average age of bachelor’s degree recipients; the youngest undergraduate is 19, the oldest is 64. Nothing in there or in my post about mormons or kids from anywhere else.
You wrote this, right? I mean, it’s right there.
”And most of the Utah kids aren't able to graduate high school at 18.”
Utah doesn’t run HS timing any different than anyone else and I’m sure most graduate at 18 everywhere in America. Why would you even think to write what you did? What would be the point to make something like that up? Oh right, I remember.
Doesn't it say right there that every undergrad at U Utah is at least 19? According to the University itself. Doesn't that suggest that most high school grads in Utah are older than 18? Weren't Mantz and Clinger 21 or 22 when they were freshmen at BYU? I guess the University of Utah could be lying about how old their freshmen are, but I can't figure out why they would lie.
5 years to complete 4 years of competition, hard age cutoff on the 24th birthday. That allows plenty of time for redshirts, missions, military, staying in high school until 20, and whatever else shenanigans they can dream up. If you absolutely need six or seven years to compete after high school, then make that a priority instead of the extracurriculars you puttered around with. Do the missions or military after you are done competing. I'm sure that the church authorities can make exceptions for doing the missions after finishing eligibility, just as they do for allowing Mantz to compete on Sundays in order to make some money. The military probably doesn't care one way or the other about sending their soldiers back to college to race teenagers. It was the athlete's choice to do a mission or military instead of competing and they should have to live with what they thought was more important. Once you start, you get 5 years, and you are gone at 24.
24 means no senior outdoor season for most missionaries. Why are you so dead set on 24? Why don't the BYU women usually serve missions if being a little older is such an advantage? How is 2 years of being lucky to have an hour a day to run if you bend the rules significantly an advantage. I guess going on missions at 22 could be done since the max age to leave on one is already older than that, but what even is the point of this cutoff?
This post was edited 57 seconds after it was posted.
”And most of the Utah kids aren't able to graduate high school at 18.”
Utah doesn’t run HS timing any different than anyone else and I’m sure most graduate at 18 everywhere in America. Why would you even think to write what you did? What would be the point to make something like that up? Oh right, I remember.
Doesn't it say right there that every undergrad at U Utah is at least 19? According to the University itself. Doesn't that suggest that most high school grads in Utah are older than 18? Weren't Mantz and Clinger 21 or 22 when they were freshmen at BYU? I guess the University of Utah could be lying about how old their freshmen are, but I can't figure out why they would lie.
"According to the University itself." If anyone is wondering whether the haters who always show up on these threads are dunces and liars who are perfectly happy to make claims with no evidence and no possibility of being true, I present to you an article from less than a week ago: U of U's Youngest Student is now 15. She started when she was 12.
So you know nothing about Mormons or Utah HS? Got it.
Setting aside missions or Mormons, asserting Utah HS kids graduate older than anywhere else is really bizarre.
According to the University of Utah, 26 is the average age of bachelor’s degree recipients; the youngest undergraduate is 19, the oldest is 64. Nothing in there or in my post about mormons or kids from anywhere else.
In Utah they graduate high school at the age of 19?!
That explains why in the last 7 years men from Utah have won NXN individual 3 times, in addition that Simmons junior took 2nd last year. This is outrageously unfair. We need to sign a petition to put an end to this nonsense now!
Let's get it done, "they are grandpas", I'm following your lead here.
With the covid-year, redshirts, and other waivers, NCAA athletes are sticking around longer than ever. One football player is petitioning for his collegiate season. I don't think anything like that has happened on the running side of things, however I have come across multiple 6-7 year athletes. In a sport where physical age is quite important, where is the line? Currently the high school class of '21 has been screwed, as they most likely lost a crucial year of highschool running and are always going to have covid-year athletes on the line with them without seeing any benefit. Also, when is it time to let someone else get a roster spot and move on to the 'real world.' To me, the NCAAs quick decision to grant everyone an extra-year hurt the integrity of collegiate sports - especially running. Curious to hear your thoughts.
There should never be an age requirement. Some foreigners don't really know when they were born. Athletes should have 4 years of eligibility to use forever. People woukd stop complaining about BYU or Covid if everyone could extend the 4 years.
I think this is the best answer. You get 4 years, no red shirt, no nuthin'.. no exceptions for transfers, hardships, whatever.
Yes, you have 4 years and what happens, happens. You are there to get educated and in 4 years that should be accomplished, if you need additional time then you need to focus on th ebooks, not your athletic career. Ivy league is as close to 4 and done as you will find.
We can't help a few of you who hate life and hate your jobs. It is amazing that you want to prevent young people from enjoying their lives. I sure hop that the limit is raised so that a few of you get really ticked off. You should be in favor of that so that every school is on a level playing field with BYU.
I would say either make the cutoff age 24 or 25. I am currently 24 and if I had remained in the NCAA system from my first semester of college (Fall '17) to current day, I would be in my 7th year (I turn 25 right after NCAA outdoors so I suppose I have a very convenient birth date for this hypothetical)
This seems like more than enough time to use up 4 years of eligibility, accounting for a potential injury, gap year, or even a missionary trip.
There's no way they train normally during their missions. They all have slow companions that they have to be with 24/7, and they only officially get 30 minutes of exercise per day. Maybe there's some rule bending on the 30 minutes and maybe on the one day per week they can do more they really push it and have companions that are willing to spend a decent potion of the one day per week that isn't just missionary work at the track while for the other guy to run, but even these most favorable circumstances don't seem great for doing much real training on the mission. Do you guys really think them being 2 years older is that much of an advantage with that's what those 2 years are like? 24 being the ineligible age would mean that most don't get a senior outdoor track season.
I currently live in Utah and grew up in LDS culture..
I am very close with many people who have served LDS missions, some of which were super successful in college and some who could never get it back together.
Missions are absolutely not advantageous for running fitness. You can run with your companions but good luck ever doing more than a 5k or running faster than 8 minute mile pace.
Missionaries come home in good enough shape to resume actually training AT BEST. Even Mantz really struggled after getting home from his mission. He told a friend of mine that dipping under 7 minute miles during mileage days was a huge challenge for him for a couple months.
I had a teammate who got back from his mission 20 lbs over race weight, and his first day of practice we ran 5-6 miles a tad faster than 7:00 pace, and he was on the ground gasping like he just ran a sit and kick 5k at the end. This kid pre mission was roughly a 9:25 3200m 15:10 at NXN type of guy that would do 10 mile power runs at sub 6:00 pace before he left.
Another very temporary teammate of mine was a 4:20 miler and consistently sub 16:00 over Utah XC courses and post mission, he was only putting up high caliber HS JV to low caliber HS varsity performances. Like 30 minute +\- a minute 8ks and a 4:55ish mile 10:00+ 3k during indoors.
There's no way they train normally during their missions. They all have slow companions that they have to be with 24/7, and they only officially get 30 minutes of exercise per day. Maybe there's some rule bending on the 30 minutes and maybe on the one day per week they can do more they really push it and have companions that are willing to spend a decent potion of the one day per week that isn't just missionary work at the track while for the other guy to run, but even these most favorable circumstances don't seem great for doing much real training on the mission. Do you guys really think them being 2 years older is that much of an advantage with that's what those 2 years are like? 24 being the ineligible age would mean that most don't get a senior outdoor track season.
I currently live in Utah and grew up in LDS culture..
I am very close with many people who have served LDS missions, some of which were super successful in college and some who could never get it back together.
Missions are absolutely not advantageous for running fitness. You can run with your companions but good luck ever doing more than a 5k or running faster than 8 minute mile pace.
Missionaries come home in good enough shape to resume actually training AT BEST. Even Mantz really struggled after getting home from his mission. He told a friend of mine that dipping under 7 minute miles during mileage days was a huge challenge for him for a couple months.
I had a teammate who got back from his mission 20 lbs over race weight, and his first day of practice we ran 5-6 miles a tad faster than 7:00 pace, and he was on the ground gasping like he just ran a sit and kick 5k at the end. This kid pre mission was roughly a 9:25 3200m 15:10 at NXN type of guy that would do 10 mile power runs at sub 6:00 pace before he left.
Another very temporary teammate of mine was a 4:20 miler and consistently sub 16:00 over Utah XC courses and post mission, he was only putting up high caliber HS JV to low caliber HS varsity performances. Like 30 minute +\- a minute 8ks and a 4:55ish mile 10:00+ 3k during indoors.
this was my experience. old select teammate dropped out after frosh season, came home, didn't even play men's league, went back, same school, like 5 years later. i was proud of him -- probably more so for even going back -- but he was basically a sub who had put on a few. we had a mid-20s marine as a backup keeper on my d3. i think he played a game or two. the 19 year old was better. that younger kid is now chunky in his middle age. this is what the world does.
like i was saying. to benefit from this age thing he's arguing you would have to be training like a college kid while sitting out. how many parents you know let johnny train like it's a job, and not make them get a real job or make them go to college?
i mean, there was a guy on another thread the other day asking about how much eligibility he had left if he had gone all 4 years not competing but was gonna try grad eligibility. i was thinking to myself, what time are you gonna shop around, your time in 2019? and how do you expect to show up next year in D1 shape? i was telling him try and walk on now even if you never do a meet. it might take weeks or months to run back into even a hint of old shape. your season will be over before old you even starts to show up.
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