You can't see the wood for the trees. Doping doesn't mean that those with no talent will beat those who do have talent, but it does mean you will be better for the talent you have. We see the general effects of doping in the overall level of improvement in a sport that can't be attributed to talent, training and technique alone.
But the hardest thing for fans like you to accept is that if there is something that will give an athlete the edge they will take it - especially if the risk of being caught is minimal. That is why sport today is full of doping at the top. The stakes are high; the risks are low. But for many fans their dreams would be shattered to realise this is their sport now.
Its weird that you say that I don't see the wood for the trees but reiterate what I just said. Then you go into the usual schpiel where you pretend that whoever you discuss with am ignorant and stupid compared to you. I have an advice: realize that if you think that everyone dopes, then it doesn't make any sense to call out single athletes. Another advice: if you hate track and field so much, find some other sport!
(I won't try to give you a third advice - everyone is innocent until they have submitted a positive sample. You can have this position while still wanting more resources to anti-doping in the sport. Life is just so much better that way - because then you can focus on track and field instead of speculation. :) )
I didn't reiterate what you just said; you need to re-read my comments. Nor do I say everyone dopes but at the top it is likely most do and I do not see how the very best now will not be doping. Further, it isn't necessary to enjoy the sport in order to observe what it has become. In a general sense it is the same as observing world events. We don't have to approve of what we see in order to be aware of it. Do WADA and antidoping officials have to be fans? Lastly, if we assume the view that you advocate, which is that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, there would be no speculation on this site about athletes doping. Yet we know many more are doping than are caught.
Some don't put in the mileage but get the results. That also is the "talent".
Not in the pro scene where the best guys all put in their healthy mileage level, maybe for hobby joggers it's true. If your results are worse because you can't put in the same mileage as someone else, you are not as talented as them.
My point is that success need not only come from hard work. There are other means.
Not in the 1500 - despite 3 failed attempts. His WC 1500 record is that of a loser. Like you.
"Like you."? How old are you? 8?
I was pitching it to your intellectual level. Looks like I got it right - especially with the difficulties you have with everyday English. (Oh dear - I used "like" again. Against the rules. But only yours.)
If we are comparing the improvement curve of Jakob vs. Nuguse, we also need to compare it with every other athlete who has not been training for 15 years. By that sense, there are three dozen athletes in the world right now with significantly more talent than Jakob. Don't know why we are arguing this. So Jakob, then, is one of the least talented track runners in the world right now.
That’s ridiculous. For 1500 through 5000, Jacob is the best ever. Except for 2 one-off guys he’s too strong for 1500m and too fast for those in the 5000m. Other runners could start at age 11 and still be physically incapable of running 7:54 for two miles.
Jakob isn't the best ever over the 1500-5k. El G was. Not only did he win Olympic medals over both distances he has the records that are still out of Jakob's reach - as well as 4 WC titles over the 1500 to Jakob's none.
Yared grew up in Kentucky running 30 mile weeks until he was 18 and now he’s run a 3:43 mile. Jakob was running 100 mile weeks and competing in diamond league races at 16 and has also run a 3:43 mile. Imagine if Yared had been training like Jakob from a young age.
Obviously. But since Yared has much less achievements than Jakob, he must not have the same work ethic, dedication and discipline. Talent is a waste if you don’t know how to use it. Too many people end up with “what would, could, should” and become remorseful in their late life.
Not in the 1500 - despite 3 failed attempts. His WC 1500 record is that of a loser. Like you.
Wrong, as usual.
He has three (senior) WC medals at 1500m (+ 1 junior) - before the age of 23. More than three WC medals at 1500m during their full career just have Morceli, El Guerrouj and Iguider. All the male athletes who have won more than one WC medal in the 1500m:
Its weird that you say that I don't see the wood for the trees but reiterate what I just said. Then you go into the usual schpiel where you pretend that whoever you discuss with am ignorant and stupid compared to you. I have an advice: realize that if you think that everyone dopes, then it doesn't make any sense to call out single athletes. Another advice: if you hate track and field so much, find some other sport!
(I won't try to give you a third advice - everyone is innocent until they have submitted a positive sample. You can have this position while still wanting more resources to anti-doping in the sport. Life is just so much better that way - because then you can focus on track and field instead of speculation. :) )
I didn't reiterate what you just said; you need to re-read my comments. Nor do I say everyone dopes but at the top it is likely most do and I do not see how the very best now will not be doping. Further, it isn't necessary to enjoy the sport in order to observe what it has become. In a general sense it is the same as observing world events. We don't have to approve of what we see in order to be aware of it. Do WADA and antidoping officials have to be fans? Lastly, if we assume the view that you advocate, which is that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, there would be no speculation on this site about athletes doping. Yet we know many more are doping than are caught.
This site without doping speculations would be fantastic, and while I observe world events I dont hang out in forums and write thousands of comments about them. I would never be here if I wasnt a fan of T&F. Do you do the same in cycling, football and other sports forums as well?
Agreed to both of these. It takes talent to run the mileage and have the consistency that Jakob has. Yared is incredible in his own right, but trying to make some abstract determination of who is more talented is crazy. They’re fractions of a percent apart.
Not in the 1500 - despite 3 failed attempts. His WC 1500 record is that of a loser. Like you.
Wrong, as usual.
He has three (senior) WC medals at 1500m (+ 1 junior) - before the age of 23. More than three WC medals at 1500m during their full career just have Morceli, El Guerrouj and Iguider. All the male athletes who have won more than one WC medal in the 1500m:
Btw, it's utterly absurd to look solely at the WC and ignore the OG.
So you have to look for junior medals in order to airbrush his resume. Laughable. No one gives a sh*t about that. He has no WC open 1500 wins, but 3 losses. El G on the other hand had 4 WC golds over the 1500 and still has the records. You Jakob fans are truly desperate.
I didn't reiterate what you just said; you need to re-read my comments. Nor do I say everyone dopes but at the top it is likely most do and I do not see how the very best now will not be doping. Further, it isn't necessary to enjoy the sport in order to observe what it has become. In a general sense it is the same as observing world events. We don't have to approve of what we see in order to be aware of it. Do WADA and antidoping officials have to be fans? Lastly, if we assume the view that you advocate, which is that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, there would be no speculation on this site about athletes doping. Yet we know many more are doping than are caught.
This site without doping speculations would be fantastic, and while I observe world events I dont hang out in forums and write thousands of comments about them. I would never be here if I wasnt a fan of T&F. Do you do the same in cycling, football and other sports forums as well?
The site without doping speculation would only be fantastic if there was no doping. But the sport is as dirty as any. That is why I am no longer a fan. You can only be a fan, like you, if you pretend to yourself the runners you support aren't doping. But they are.
This site without doping speculations would be fantastic, and while I observe world events I dont hang out in forums and write thousands of comments about them. I would never be here if I wasnt a fan of T&F. Do you do the same in cycling, football and other sports forums as well?
The site without doping speculation would only be fantastic if there was no doping. But the sport is as dirty as any. That is why I am no longer a fan. You can only be a fan, like you, if you pretend to yourself the runners you support aren't doping. But they are.
Why do you bother spending so much time here if you are not a fan? I have no problem discussing doping (and especially anti-doping) but accusations and speculations is so boring as they just stay speculation and accusations.
He has three (senior) WC medals at 1500m (+ 1 junior) - before the age of 23. More than three WC medals at 1500m during their full career just have Morceli, El Guerrouj and Iguider. All the male athletes who have won more than one WC medal in the 1500m:
Btw, it's utterly absurd to look solely at the WC and ignore the OG.
So you have to look for junior medals in order to airbrush his resume. Laughable. No one gives a sh*t about that. He has no WC open 1500 wins, but 3 losses. El G on the other hand had 4 WC golds over the 1500 and still has the records. You Jakob fans are truly desperate.
No Armlost, just the facts.
You stated he has not won a WC medal in the 1500m - he has. Three. Only El Guerrouj, Morceli, Iguider have won more, you can't read?
And again you mention his "loss" at age 18 - he was 4th. The first time that the subject of your wet dreams, Ron Clarke, qualified to compete at the Commonwealth games, was at age 25 (27 for the Olympics).
Mentioning correct facts for you means Jakob fan. Your stupidity hurts.
Yared grew up in Kentucky running 30 mile weeks until he was 18 and now he’s run a 3:43 mile. Jakob was running 100 mile weeks and competing in diamond league races at 16 and has also run a 3:43 mile. Imagine if Yared had been training like Jakob from a young age.