NYT article about Nikki Hiltz

recordplayeron wrote:

high school xc coach wrote:

"there's still room for growth. instead of calling it mens and womans category, they can call it...I don't know, i don't know"

it's even confusing for her.

Good job cherry picking one phrase from a post-race interview. Nikki's main point was that they have no issue with referring to the race as the women's race, and referring to the men's race as the men's race. It's far more narcissistic to whine about another person, who has nothing to do with you, using they/them pronouns because YOU don't like it and YOU don't want to hear announcer's using they/them pronouns in a race and YOU feel uncomfortable with using pronouns that don't align with a person's birth sex. It's all bout YOU, and how this makes YOU feel. Nikki just wants people to use they/them pronouns and is not asking for any additional attention. If other people treated Nikki's gender identity as no big deal, and made a good faith effort to use the correct pronouns, then none of this would be an issue.

RunRagged wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

I liken this to pronouncing a person’s name correctly. If you mis pronounce it, no big deal. The person will correct you. If you willfully keep mispronouncing it over and over, you are being a jerk. Is the person who wants their name said correctly self absorbed? Aren’t people entitled to this courtesy, to have their name said correctly? Well, using the pronouns they prefer is common courtesy too.

Oh, good grief.

Half the native speakers of English in the world whom I've heard say JK Rowling's name out loud have mispronounced her surname. Including big-name broadcasters and trans activists. Many people who mispronounce Rowling's name continue to do so even after learning the way she, her family and friends pronounce it and prefer it to be pronounced. But AFAIK, JK Rowling has never once alleged that anyone who gets her name wrong over and over is "being a jerk," or that everyone who bungles her name is denying her the common courtesy and respect that she's entitled to.

I don't consider my first name or last name difficult to pronounce, but both have been said in unusual ways that sound wrong to me by all sorts of people over the course of my entire life. Big deal.

One of my children has a two-syllable first name that at least 80% of the people he/we know mispronounce as one syllable. Big deal.

In the course of my life, I've personally been called by the wrong name in many settings (indluding by teachers and my own parents on occasion as a kid). I've also been "misgendered" more times than I can count too. Many people have been, especially women.

When I was married to a man, I was often called by his last name and referred to as "Mrs His-Last-Name" to my face, in written correspondence and in legal documents even though I never changed my last name to his last or ever used the title "Mrs."

I've received mail my whole adult life that's addressed me as "Sir" as well.

Anyone who is so thin-skinned and quick to feel slighted that they go through life regarding other people's verbal pecadillos and "failings" of this sort as hurtful, disrespectful or abusive digs, slurs and libels that insult and challenge their personal "identity" - or worse, deny their identity or their very existence - is in for a whole lot of needless misery. People who need others to provide constant external recognition, "validation" and "affirmation" of the special identity labels they've adopted are going to drive themselves and everyone around them stark raving mad.

Also, constantly finding fault with, and feeling aggrieved over, the pronouns other people use in reference to you, the way others pronounce your name, and the fact that sometimes other people might call you by the wrong name or forget they ever knew your name at all, is profoundly ableist and ageist. For a wide variety of reasons, many people in the world have (or will one day develop) cognitive disabilities, language processing difficulties, hearing impairments, speech impediments, memory lapses and loss, "brain fog," difficulty paying attention and so on. Many people have a hard time with social niceties and courtesies that come easy to other because of autism. Other people are just natural bunglers or have "tin ears."

RunRagged wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

I liken this to pronouncing a person’s name correctly. If you mis pronounce it, no big deal. The person will correct you. If you willfully keep mispronouncing it over and over, you are being a jerk. Is the person who wants their name said correctly self absorbed? Aren’t people entitled to this courtesy, to have their name said correctly? Well, using the pronouns they prefer is common courtesy too.

Oh, good grief.

Half the native speakers of English in the world whom I've heard say JK Rowling's name out loud have mispronounced her surname. Including big-name broadcasters and trans activists. Many people who mispronounce Rowling's name continue to do so even after learning the way she, her family and friends pronounce it and prefer it to be pronounced. But AFAIK, JK Rowling has never once alleged that anyone who gets her name wrong over and over is "being a jerk," or that everyone who bungles her name is denying her the common courtesy and respect that she's entitled to.

I don't consider my first name or last name difficult to pronounce, but both have been said in unusual ways that sound wrong to me by all sorts of people over the course of my entire life. Big deal.

One of my children has a two-syllable first name that at least 80% of the people he/we know mispronounce as one syllable. Big deal.

In the course of my life, I've personally been called by the wrong name in many settings (indluding by teachers and my own parents on occasion as a kid). I've also been "misgendered" more times than I can count too. Many people have been, especially women.

When I was married to a man, I was often called by his last name and referred to as "Mrs His-Last-Name" to my face, in written correspondence and in legal documents even though I never changed my last name to his last or ever used the title "Mrs."

I've received mail my whole adult life that's addressed me as "Sir" as well.

Anyone who is so thin-skinned and quick to feel slighted that they go through life regarding other people's verbal pecadillos and "failings" of this sort as hurtful, disrespectful or abusive digs, slurs and libels that insult and challenge their personal "identity" - or worse, deny their identity or their very existence - is in for a whole lot of needless misery. People who need others to provide constant external recognition, "validation" and "affirmation" of the special identity labels they've adopted are going to drive themselves and everyone around them stark raving mad.

Also, constantly finding fault with, and feeling aggrieved over, the pronouns other people use in reference to you, the way others pronounce your name, and the fact that sometimes other people might call you by the wrong name or forget they ever knew your name at all, is profoundly ableist and ageist. For a wide variety of reasons, many people in the world have (or will one day develop) cognitive disabilities, language processing difficulties, hearing impairments, speech impediments, memory lapses and loss, "brain fog," difficulty paying attention and so on. Many people have a hard time with social niceties and courtesies that come easy to other because of autism. Other people are just natural bunglers or have "tin ears."

caca wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

Oh, good grief.

Half the native speakers of English in the world whom I've heard say JK Rowling's name out loud have mispronounced her surname. Including big-name broadcasters and trans activists. Many people who mispronounce Rowling's name continue to do so even after learning the way she, her family and friends pronounce it and prefer it to be pronounced. But AFAIK, JK Rowling has never once alleged that anyone who gets her name wrong over and over is "being a jerk," or that everyone who bungles her name is denying her the common courtesy and respect that she's entitled to.

I don't consider my first name or last name difficult to pronounce, but both have been said in unusual ways that sound wrong to me by all sorts of people over the course of my entire life. Big deal.

One of my children has a two-syllable first name that at least 80% of the people he/we know mispronounce as one syllable. Big deal.

In the course of my life, I've personally been called by the wrong name in many settings (indluding by teachers and my own parents on occasion as a kid). I've also been "misgendered" more times than I can count too. Many people have been, especially women.

When I was married to a man, I was often called by his last name and referred to as "Mrs His-Last-Name" to my face, in written correspondence and in legal documents even though I never changed my last name to his last or ever used the title "Mrs."

I've received mail my whole adult life that's addressed me as "Sir" as well.

Anyone who is so thin-skinned and quick to feel slighted that they go through life regarding other people's verbal pecadillos and "failings" of this sort as hurtful, disrespectful or abusive digs, slurs and libels that insult and challenge their personal "identity" - or worse, deny their identity or their very existence - is in for a whole lot of needless misery. People who need others to provide constant external recognition, "validation" and "affirmation" of the special identity labels they've adopted are going to drive themselves and everyone around them stark raving mad.

Also, constantly finding fault with, and feeling aggrieved over, the pronouns other people use in reference to you, the way others pronounce your name, and the fact that sometimes other people might call you by the wrong name or forget they ever knew your name at all, is profoundly ableist and ageist. For a wide variety of reasons, many people in the world have (or will one day develop) cognitive disabilities, language processing difficulties, hearing impairments, speech impediments, memory lapses and loss, "brain fog," difficulty paying attention and so on. Many people have a hard time with social niceties and courtesies that come easy to other because of autism. Other people are just natural bunglers or have "tin ears."

How rich. There’s plenty of proof on this website of your expression of outrage at being addressed as “it”.

RunRagged wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

I liken this to pronouncing a person’s name correctly. If you mis pronounce it, no big deal. The person will correct you. If you willfully keep mispronouncing it over and over, you are being a jerk. Is the person who wants their name said correctly self absorbed? Aren’t people entitled to this courtesy, to have their name said correctly? Well, using the pronouns they prefer is common courtesy too.

Oh, good grief.

Half the native speakers of English in the world whom I've heard say JK Rowling's name out loud have mispronounced her surname. Including big-name broadcasters and trans activists. Many people who mispronounce Rowling's name continue to do so even after learning the way she, her family and friends pronounce it and prefer it to be pronounced. But AFAIK, JK Rowling has never once alleged that anyone who gets her name wrong over and over is "being a jerk," or that everyone who bungles her name is denying her the common courtesy and respect that she's entitled to.

I don't consider my first name or last name difficult to pronounce, but both have been said in unusual ways that sound wrong to me by all sorts of people over the course of my entire life. Big deal.

One of my children has a two-syllable first name that at least 80% of the people he/we know mispronounce as one syllable. Big deal.

In the course of my life, I've personally been called by the wrong name in many settings (indluding by teachers and my own parents on occasion as a kid). I've also been "misgendered" more times than I can count too. Many people have been, especially women.

When I was married to a man, I was often called by his last name and referred to as "Mrs His-Last-Name" to my face, in written correspondence and in legal documents even though I never changed my last name to his last or ever used the title "Mrs."

I've received mail my whole adult life that's addressed me as "Sir" as well.

Anyone who is so thin-skinned and quick to feel slighted that they go through life regarding other people's verbal pecadillos and "failings" of this sort as hurtful, disrespectful or abusive digs, slurs and libels that insult and challenge their personal "identity" - or worse, deny their identity or their very existence - is in for a whole lot of needless misery. People who need others to provide constant external recognition, "validation" and "affirmation" of the special identity labels they've adopted are going to drive themselves and everyone around them stark raving mad.

Also, constantly finding fault with, and feeling aggrieved over, the pronouns other people use in reference to you, the way others pronounce your name, and the fact that sometimes other people might call you by the wrong name or forget they ever knew your name at all, is profoundly ableist and ageist. For a wide variety of reasons, many people in the world have (or will one day develop) cognitive disabilities, language processing difficulties, hearing impairments, speech impediments, memory lapses and loss, "brain fog," difficulty paying attention and so on. Many people have a hard time with social niceties and courtesies that come easy to other because of autism. Other people are just natural bunglers or have "tin ears."

caca wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

Oh, good grief.

Half the native speakers of English in the world whom I've heard say JK Rowling's name out loud have mispronounced her surname. Including big-name broadcasters and trans activists. Many people who mispronounce Rowling's name continue to do so even after learning the way she, her family and friends pronounce it and prefer it to be pronounced. But AFAIK, JK Rowling has never once alleged that anyone who gets her name wrong over and over is "being a jerk," or that everyone who bungles her name is denying her the common courtesy and respect that she's entitled to.

I don't consider my first name or last name difficult to pronounce, but both have been said in unusual ways that sound wrong to me by all sorts of people over the course of my entire life. Big deal.

One of my children has a two-syllable first name that at least 80% of the people he/we know mispronounce as one syllable. Big deal.

In the course of my life, I've personally been called by the wrong name in many settings (indluding by teachers and my own parents on occasion as a kid). I've also been "misgendered" more times than I can count too. Many people have been, especially women.

When I was married to a man, I was often called by his last name and referred to as "Mrs His-Last-Name" to my face, in written correspondence and in legal documents even though I never changed my last name to his last or ever used the title "Mrs."

I've received mail my whole adult life that's addressed me as "Sir" as well.

Anyone who is so thin-skinned and quick to feel slighted that they go through life regarding other people's verbal pecadillos and "failings" of this sort as hurtful, disrespectful or abusive digs, slurs and libels that insult and challenge their personal "identity" - or worse, deny their identity or their very existence - is in for a whole lot of needless misery. People who need others to provide constant external recognition, "validation" and "affirmation" of the special identity labels they've adopted are going to drive themselves and everyone around them stark raving mad.

Also, constantly finding fault with, and feeling aggrieved over, the pronouns other people use in reference to you, the way others pronounce your name, and the fact that sometimes other people might call you by the wrong name or forget they ever knew your name at all, is profoundly ableist and ageist. For a wide variety of reasons, many people in the world have (or will one day develop) cognitive disabilities, language processing difficulties, hearing impairments, speech impediments, memory lapses and loss, "brain fog," difficulty paying attention and so on. Many people have a hard time with social niceties and courtesies that come easy to other because of autism. Other people are just natural bunglers or have "tin ears."

How rich. There’s plenty of proof on this website of your expression of outrage at being addressed as “it”.

Wise Old Man wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

Oh, good grief.

Half the native speakers of English in the world whom I've heard say JK Rowling's name out loud have mispronounced her surname. Including big-name broadcasters and trans activists. Many people who mispronounce Rowling's name continue to do so even after learning the way she, her family and friends pronounce it and prefer it to be pronounced. But AFAIK, JK Rowling has never once alleged that anyone who gets her name wrong over and over is "being a jerk," or that everyone who bungles her name is denying her the common courtesy and respect that she's entitled to.

I don't consider my first name or last name difficult to pronounce, but both have been said in unusual ways that sound wrong to me by all sorts of people over the course of my entire life. Big deal.

One of my children has a two-syllable first name that at least 80% of the people he/we know mispronounce as one syllable. Big deal.

In the course of my life, I've personally been called by the wrong name in many settings (indluding by teachers and my own parents on occasion as a kid). I've also been "misgendered" more times than I can count too. Many people have been, especially women.

When I was married to a man, I was often called by his last name and referred to as "Mrs His-Last-Name" to my face, in written correspondence and in legal documents even though I never changed my last name to his last or ever used the title "Mrs."

I've received mail my whole adult life that's addressed me as "Sir" as well.

Anyone who is so thin-skinned and quick to feel slighted that they go through life regarding other people's verbal pecadillos and "failings" of this sort as hurtful, disrespectful or abusive digs, slurs and libels that insult and challenge their personal "identity" - or worse, deny their identity or their very existence - is in for a whole lot of needless misery. People who need others to provide constant external recognition, "validation" and "affirmation" of the special identity labels they've adopted are going to drive themselves and everyone around them stark raving mad.

Also, constantly finding fault with, and feeling aggrieved over, the pronouns other people use in reference to you, the way others pronounce your name, and the fact that sometimes other people might call you by the wrong name or forget they ever knew your name at all, is profoundly ableist and ageist. For a wide variety of reasons, many people in the world have (or will one day develop) cognitive disabilities, language processing difficulties, hearing impairments, speech impediments, memory lapses and loss, "brain fog," difficulty paying attention and so on. Many people have a hard time with social niceties and courtesies that come easy to other because of autism. Other people are just natural bunglers or have "tin ears."

One of your most silly posts. Yes, if JK Rowling told me the correct pronunciation of her name and I then purposefully refused to say it correctly, I would be a complete jerk and in no way would she be thin skinned for thinking so. Nikki Hiltz is not demanding people be error free, but they asked to be addressed in a certain way and if you refuse that’s lame. Stop confusing rudeness for some sort of feminist activism. How does it injure you to use the requested pronouns? Making an innocent error (I just did) should be corrected and forgiven, but willful disregard is unacceptable.