double threshold is the most overrated thing in running

They are able to run more volume at threshold than the athlete who does a traditional morning easy run and afternoon track session. Because the morning threshold session intensity is controlled by measuring lactate, they can recover adequately with 5 or 6 hours rest to do another moderate intensity threshold session the same day. It's the volume of threshold running (along with shoe improvement) that's producing sub 3:30 1500s, which isn't so much faster than what was run 30 years ago.

Yes, maximizing volume around threshold is a key concept. As muscles fatigue much quicker at higher paces, intervals are the key element to bring in more volume.

Lactate measurements are done to check/control the muscular stress. Stress, but not too much stress in the morning, and more stress but not too much stress in the evening. If you really need a lactate level measurement for any session, is another debate and can possible be avoided.

Overall a very good concept.

Not contradicting anything you say, but its worth noting that Bakkens methods is now outdated in Norway. The model/philosophy has been developed since his retirement, which is many years ago.

Remember, 3.5mmol is not really normal for the Ingebrigtsens anymore. Jakob rarely is above 2.5

3.5mmol is best used as a limit when doing single treshold effets, for doubles its an increased risk of overdoing and overtraining. If you do double treshold, aim to keep the hardest one of the two below 3, and the easiest one below 2mmol. Rule of thumb etc, its also important to note that there are differences between the lactate meters.

Probably one thing that annoys me more is people spelling threshold as "treshold" because that's how the scandis pronounce it.

The other thing I find really funny is someone on letsrun a couple years ago said that the Ingebrigstens do sessions like 20x400 or 10x1k a day and then everyone just went with it.

No one really questioned the validity of the statement the repetitions of their workouts. They all assumed they do the same thing week in and week out

… what about 2 units or 10 units ..maybe 8 units…

Due to availability, in Europe, everyone uses the lactate pro. In America, everyone uses the lactate plus. What is the difference in lactate readings between the two?

It was a child that revealed the emperor's new clothes, so the views of those you condescend to are quite capable of pointing out what the "grown-ups' like yourself wish to not see - because you are "bored" by it you say, which is an acknowledgement of its presence. No advance in training methods can be separated today from their doping accompaniment, which is now just as "normal" for elites as threshold training. Doping will affect the regularity, the duration and the intensity of any training session. All of these will be lifted beyond what is achievable naturally. Without being able to separate doping from the equation you are effectively left guessing what are the optimal sessions for a 'clean' athlete and how beneficial they will be.

My college team did almost all of our training at Aerobic Threshold with long (1k-1mi) intervals at 10k race pace (3x/week). Other runs were long and easy with short easy morning runs. We finished top 5 in the NCAA D1 XC championship. The only fast stuff we did was strides. It ain't new, it ain't revolutionary.

ActuallyKnowsThreshold - do you have proof that Jakob is below 2 in the morning session? That would be an easy run for him. Not much different than doing an easy double run? I have seen that he is below 2.5 in AM and 3.5 in PM.

What do you mean by Baaken’s system is outdated? What are the Norwegians doing now that is different?

How about you change our minds. You just made a thread title and there was nothing in your post. Explain to us how and why you think its overrated.

Na, steady running is.

So many do it, yet (with the exception of marathon training) it serves absolutely no purpose - In fact, it's detrimental to performance.

Now when I say steady running - I mean a pace/effort somewhere between "Marathon pace" and "easy pace".

If you aren't doing a workout, you should be recovering while getting the miles in. No point delaying your recovery time and accumulating fatigue by doing a run that doesn't give you the specific benefits of a workout.

Hi Siri, what is sarcasm?

I would say it isn't just the training that is producing sub-3.30 performances. It isn't all that they are doing.

You can't separate training and performance from doping. It is naive to pretend otherwise - although that is clearly your preference.

To piggyback off this…

”Threshold” pace means so many things to so many people. Instead of calling it double threshold it should really be called the Norwegian Model.

I warmed up with a guy at a race a couple months ago who was telling me how he had started doing double threshold training. His idea of double threshold though is a 5Mi tempo run in the morning at 10k pace and a 5Mi tempo run in the afternoon at 10K pace. Which, fine. He ended up winning our age group (30-40) in 16:2x.

The Norwegian Model is multiple evolutionary steps beyond that. By regularly taking blood samples during a workout athletes have a better chance of staying at their Aerobic Threshold and they are able to push the boundary of that Threshold further and further back.

The technology may already exist for athletes to have continuous monitoring during workouts. They will be able to plug a device onto their ear or wherever and get live, updated MMOL readings in real time, similar to heart rate. When that happens someone will begin pushing back out to longer continuous steady state runs again and everyone will freak out about that model and claim it’s a new thing when in actuality it’s just the next progression of the Norwegian Model.

Unless malmo was the AR holder in high school when he was doing the double thresholds, I'm not sure you're refuted the original post (and yes, I know who malmo is/was).

That is a race in the morning and a race in the afternoon. 5mi at between half marathon to marathon pace is doable. This is suicide training.

I think if "double threshold" were more aptly named "running more," it would be less of a trendy buzzword. Doing "double threshold" is just a convenient and efficient tactic to adding more volume/intensity to your workload. The only people who would even need to double threshold workouts are those who have maxed out their mileage in single workouts.

Just like for all these keto and carnivore freaks who think they have found the secret to weight loss. No, it's not that fat and protein has a special fat-burning effect, you're just eating less calories naturally by cutting out carbs.