Here's what I don't understand: Kids go to CU, Oregon, Stanford, NAU, etc. because the goal is to become an elite athlete with Olympic aspirations. To get there, they have to be dialed into everything. Body composition is a massive part of this, and that doesn't mean being "skinny". As someone mentioned earlier about the 330 pound lineman, how is that different from telling the distance runner that they need to work on their body composition?
Don't tell me body weight isn't an important part of being an elite athlete. When you have bloody papers on tracks because the Norwegians prick their ears for every workout, that tells you that the details matter. If an athlete can't handle that, then there are a million other schools they can attend where being a top level distance runner isn't the most important thing. They can also join running clubs if they want to keep going. Not everyone is cut out to be an elite runner, so parents and their kids need to make the right choice and not ruin things for the ones who know what they want and know what they are getting into.
Should the US adapt to beat the Norwegians? Right now they are THE nation to beat in a lot of aerobic sports. The lactate meter detail you mentioned, is vital if we need to get to that level.
The sample was NOT representative of the body. The young lady that complained essentially hand picked a small group of women that had complaints about the coaches. Imagine they did it the other way - picked a group out of people that had no complaints. If they went through every woman that ran for CU and only picked supporters of the coaches then it would have been more representative than this small group of complainers.
in the end, a female distance runner is THE most dangerous athlete to coach. They have the highest rate of mental disorders and are the biggest risk to any coaches career. They tend to think of themselves as heroes when they attack coaches.
You clearly don’t understand how women are treated if you say “a female distance runner is THE most dangerous athlete to coach”. You have it backwards. The coaches are not at risk of the female athlete if the athlete is treated with respect - the athlete herself is always at risk of being mistreated. It is so frustrating to be treated differently than male colleagues doing the exact same thing or worse and still being treated as less than just because you are a woman. And this doesn’t just go for sports, it goes on everywhere. So, when your sport is something you care about and get joy out of, it is infuriating to deal with the same sexism in something that is supposed to bring strength.
I know this reply won’t fix your mind or how you think, as I believe you are beyond repair if you truly believe a mistreated woman is at fault here, but hopefully this gives you some perspective before you decide to share your opinions on things you know nothing about.
Your points are valid in the working world, but again, everyone is different.
I know females in STEM who hate it b/c it's a boy's club (correct) and they have the same issues that you are mentioning (and understandably so), guys in STEM are favored in some areas more than women :( I know males in female industries who are ostracized and never advance (healthcare and education) b/c they aren't liberal enough. And females are promoted to leadership roles BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN not because they rock and kick butt at their jobs. I'd hire the woman over the man 100% of the time ONLY IF she is better qualified!
Eating disorders as athletes become focused on their results of that and not on the training. I have seen it first hand.
Spot on. This is not talked about enough. When an athlete is suffering from an eating disorder, their mind starts to prioritize their eating and the appearance of their body/number on a scale over everything else. When I was in the throes of an eating disorder as a female collegiate runner, I felt that if I ate poorly that day, or if my weight was a couple pounds up, or my abs didn't show, that there was no point in training or racing because I'd already failed. It's not logical, but that's why it's a disorder. I felt (again illogically) that if I didn't look like Jenny Simpson I could never run well no matter what training I did. It caused severe depression and self hatred as I felt out of control of myself because I didn't have the willpower to achieve my goals. I was mentally defeated on the starting line before even starting a race.
Ironically, by switching my focus to training and OFF body composition, I achieved my goals AND my own ideal running body came along with it. And if I was a few pounds up, I realized it didn't matter. I raced well in a range of weights. I was no longer out of control restricting and then binging. I fueled myself, trained hard, and the results came with that. Making weight and body composition the focus of how to be a 'good runner' can be extremely counterproductive for many people.
This. when al cantello was around at the naval academy, he would constantly scream at his athletes about being too fat and needing to eat less. Didn't matter if that person needed weigh less or not; didn't matter if it was true or not. Cantello's mindset was: runner eats less --> runner weighs less--> runners runs faster.
One year before the first race of the season he sat everyone down and screamed at us right into our faces that if we got on the starting line and we're thinking about that snickers bar we had two weeks early, that our race was done. Cantello would constantly publicly humiliate anyone on the team by callling them fat. Even if they were skinny. all it would take was a bad workout or race.
Sometimes it seemed that food was Cantello's primary coaching philosophy. Athletes would rip each other for having a single soda, even on the weekend. During the week, team ate together at team tables. It was a point of pride as to who could eat less. I only started to run well when I stopped going to team tables and I could eat a normal amount of food.
One teammate of mine wanted to run under 8:40 for the 3k in one race. He ran like 8:43. His first reaction after the race? That he needed to lose weight.
It's not a victim mindset to say that that sh*t was disgusting, toxic, and yes abusive.
The amount of mansplaining on this thread is hilarious. Looks like 69yo coach just couldn't keep up with how coaching has evolved in the last few years and the price he'll pay is retiring at 70 like a normal person. The only reason he's not fired is the arrival of Coach Prime in Boulder... but his time will come as well.
Dumb post. You're saying that his coaching hasn't evolved? You think there is someone younger who is better at this than he is? You're going to be the same person who complains when US distance running sucks on the world stage.
Except this is college coaching, idiot. For as good a program is, it never should forget it's a developmental system with developmental athletes that come into it as boys and girls.
You know what won’t make them hesitant? The world champions that have come out of the women’s program. They offer their athletes every resource available to make a world class runner. Just because some lack the maturity to handle voluntary body composition testing doesn’t mean it doesn’t lack merit as a training tool. Some kids just want to participate, others aspire to become professionals. While it may not appeal to your sensibilities (D3 athletics), doesn’t mean others don’t have higher aspirations. A number of their athletes have gone on to have long, incredibly productive careers. That is not something one typically associates with a “meat grinder”.
Are all top NCAA women’s distance programs doing body composition testing though? I remember reading that NC State does not do this and neither does BYU. Two of the best programs with excellent female coaches.
Body composition testing seems unnecessary even for performance. Most people including body builders find it difficult to change their body composition. You typically gain both fat and muscle when you put on weight and vice versa, but the relative proportions are highly individual.
Weight matters but body composition hasn’t been shown to matter for performance, all else being equal, for elite athletes.
Dumb post. You're saying that his coaching hasn't evolved? You think there is someone younger who is better at this than he is? You're going to be the same person who complains when US distance running sucks on the world stage.
Except this is college coaching, idiot. For as good a program is, it never should forget it's a developmental system with developmental athletes that come into it as boys and girls.
That's why CU brought in Prime Time, right? To develop athletes, not to produce a winning environment.
Power 5 Conferences are not about development in any sport. It is not "college coaching". Coaches that don't win, lose their job. That's what some people don't understand.
My take is that this report amounts to a "performance improvement plan" for Wetmore and Burroughs. CU doesn't want to fire them, but they will be permitted to resign with full benefits or be non-tendered at contract renewal time. Effectively, they are finished at CU and the university will move on.
I have no opinion on them or their methods, but this seems very similar to the situation with Robert Johnson at Oregon. The institution wants to put this in the rear view mirror with minimal damage control and move forward.
Except this is college coaching, idiot. For as good a program is, it never should forget it's a developmental system with developmental athletes that come into it as boys and girls.
That's why CU brought in Prime Time, right? To develop athletes, not to produce a winning environment.
Power 5 Conferences are not about development in any sport. It is not "college coaching". Coaches that don't win, lose their job. That's what some people don't understand.
Comparing football and running... congratulations, you just played yourself.
Except this is college coaching, idiot. For as good a program is, it never should forget it's a developmental system with developmental athletes that come into it as boys and girls.
That's why CU brought in Prime Time, right? To develop athletes, not to produce a winning environment.
Power 5 Conferences are not about development in any sport. It is not "college coaching". Coaches that don't win, lose their job. That's what some people don't understand.
This is a silly, obviously outsider perspective. Rick George doesn't give half a sh!t whether CU wins another xc crown, he just wants varsity sports (revenue or not) to avoid negative press.
I'm pleased the administration didn't cave and fire the coaches. This is the right outcome. People need to be allowed to make mistakes and improve, not just be canned.
A few other thoughts.
1) Is Wetmore and Burroughs' focus on "body composition" totally not needed?
I was surprised they wrote this to the team, "We believe that optimal body composition is second only to serious training in relevance to your racing results.”
Optimal body composition means optimal body composition. It does not mean mal-nourished. It means lean, strong, and healthy.
That's why CU brought in Prime Time, right? To develop athletes, not to produce a winning environment.
Power 5 Conferences are not about development in any sport. It is not "college coaching". Coaches that don't win, lose their job. That's what some people don't understand.
This is a silly, obviously outsider perspective. Rick George doesn't give half a sh!t whether CU wins another xc crown, he just wants varsity sports (revenue or not) to avoid negative press.
If he didn't care, Wetmore and Burroughs would be out.
This is a silly, obviously outsider perspective. Rick George doesn't give half a sh!t whether CU wins another xc crown, he just wants varsity sports (revenue or not) to avoid negative press.
If he didn't care, Wetmore and Burroughs would be out.
Not without cause that violates the employment contract, buddy. The investigation clearly couldn't prove that Wetmore's and Burrough's actions didn't cause injury to any potential complainant involved thus far. Rick George also has alumni who donate to the AD to appease, along with contracts to uphold. Guarantee you CU's legal department made sure there wouldn't be grounds for a class action suit from any aggrieved parties so that this could quietly go away per SHRM-CP's post.
If he didn't care, Wetmore and Burroughs would be out.
Not without cause that violates the employment contract, buddy. The investigation clearly couldn't prove that Wetmore's and Burrough's actions did cause injury to any potential complainant involved thus far. Rick George also has alumni who donate to the AD to appease, along with contracts to uphold. Guarantee you CU's legal department made sure there wouldn't be grounds for a class action suit from any aggrieved parties so that this could quietly go away per SHRM-CP's post.
RW targeting Wettmore is nothing more than a hit job and chance to be relevant in the real world of running. Hopefully this is their final story and they can stop producing crap stories.
Tell me again how this is any different then a football coach pitching for weight control of large linemen and muscle building in recievers and backs? How many football players are shunned away from college money because they arent big enoug?
RW targeting Wettmore is nothing more than a hit job and chance to be relevant in the real world of running. Hopefully this is their final story and they can stop producing crap stories.
Yes, very devious of RW to force CU to hire an outside firm to investigate claims and then help that firm find dozens of former CU runners with similar stories.
It seems to me if people are fit, they will naturally be lean enough to compete if they were meant to be an elite distance runner. Why not just focus on the training? I think the nutrition / diet stuff is vastly overrated. Unless they are eating like a complete moron, so much of it is training/genetics.
It would be great if this were true, but it's not. Body composition predicts finishing position, even within pro fields. Every pro I've ever talked to has basically said that 90% of getting ready for a racing season is getting lean; the fitness part is relatively easy after so many years.
I'm not saying that this means CU's approach is right, but it's also not good to just lie to people and say weight doesn't matter. College athletes aren't idiots. They know weight matters. And if you say, "just don't worry about it," they'll end up trying to get really lean without the support of professionals, and that's also a recipe for eating disorders.
That's truly up to the individual; good point. I was a volunteer assistant coach at Northland HS in Cbus in 2016 and this also applies to HS football--as Coach Parcells (NYG) said in his autobiography guys have to be treated differently (I'm paraphrasing) based on their mental makeup. Some guys LOVE negative feedback and "chip on the shoulder" mentality--they will run for you. Others need them to feel like you're their best friend (NO sarcasm, honestly). It really is personal based on the student/athlete.
Bingo. And isn't the same true for life which is kind of why we have two parties.
The athletes interviewed WERE NOT a representative sample, they interviewed only the people the initial complainer identified.
This is from Wetmore's statement:
"The report is clear to say it is not a misconduct investigation, and the inquiry team did not undertake specific efforts to corroborate facts related to incidents or events reported by student-athletes. See page 3 of the Inquiry. Further, the report does not establish whether the referenced statements, events or incidents occurred, which are presented primarily in summary by the investigating body. See page 3 of the Inquiry. Some of these unsubstantiated characterizations of events we vehemently deny. The report notes that the witnesses interviewed were those identified or suggested by the complaining athlete. See page 6 of the Inquiry."
Agreed, but can you imagine being a top recruit and having some options and then reading this report? Why would you choose CU? I’m a parent of recruited girls (not good enough for CU), but if they were and I read this I would strongly encourage them to go elsewhere. This report is damaging and having the positive attestations of superstars like Simpson or Coburn is not sufficiently reassuring because I’d assume they were outliers in their supreme talent.
EXACTLY. I would be very very worried if my daughter had just committed there.
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