If what you said is true then there should be no problem in requiring trans women to compete in the male division. When it's just for fun it doesn't matter what place they finish against men/males.
The problem is the mental implications of forcing someone that identifies as female to compete as a male. That is cruel
If gender is a social construct, why are trans people fighting for “their personal identity.” They should be their own person rather than trying to conform to societal constructs. Clothes are used to protect us from the elements. They should only be worn for protection from the elements and should be gender neutral. Clothes in their present state are prejudiced and discriminatory!
If gender is a social construct, why are trans people fighting for “their personal identity.” They should be their own person rather than trying to conform to societal constructs. Clothes are used to protect us from the elements. They should only be worn for protection from the elements and should be gender neutral. Clothes in their present state are prejudiced and discriminatory!
Clothes are gender neutral, it is society that assigns then to a specific gender. A dress is only considered feminine because society decided it was feminine. The dress itself is just a cut of fabric.
In that case, we should just have one division in all sports - an open division. "just line up and do the best you can. Doesn't matter if you come in first place or thousandth place if you did your best."
I'd support that. Let the best athlete regardless of gender win. Sometimes it will be a woman, sometimes a man.
Great. You just eliminated any chance to compete at a high level for 50% of the population. Which basically makes you a sexist a-hole.
If your baby was born with obvious male genitalia and your doctors announced that you had a lovely baby girl/daughter, you'd be filing a medical malpractice lawsuit before you left the hospital.
Gender identity can't be observed at birth because it is a self-assigned social construct developed over time. Sex is not gender but it is gender that should dictate how one goes through life. How they dress, they identify, which restroom they use, and what category remember compete in.
Sex is only really important for one thing, reproduction. Since these athletic events are not reproductive tasks only gender identity matters and it should be wide open with no questions asked and no need to alter hormones
How they dress, yes. How they identify, yes. Which restroom? I think that should actually depend on physical appearance, because femme transwomen are probably safer in the ladies room, but really masculine transwomen (like Lia Thomas, Molly Cameron, or that one guy screaming "It's ma'am" at a store clerk) would make women feel unsafe.
But sports? What the [heck] does that have to do with gender identity? It's not women's gender identity that determines their muscle strength.
Is support that. Let the best athlete regardless of gender win. Sometimes it will be a woman, sometimes a man.
Sure. As long as by "sometimes" you mean never when there is any money on the line.
Untrue. The best athlete in the world could be a female mis-gendered at birth. They are as much a female as any female that matches their sex assigned at birth
Multiple Connecticut athletes lost their rightful place to compete. Similarly, 2 California girls lost their spot - and they could have had big PRs in the right race.
I understand that but what happens when the transgender athletes graduate? We're talking about one Connecticut race in one division, right? Does the state of Connecticut need a law when there are so few transgender athletes competing? I mean, how many events were contested in Connecticut at conference & state meets. 99.9% of the events didn't have any transgender athletes competing in them. Are you telling me the Connecticut & CA athletes had no chances all season to run fast & to secure college scholarships? Again, I don't have the answers but I think kids will have plenty of opportunities to keep improving after high school. It's just that we hear about every single competitive high school transgender athlete when there are only 4 in Utah & 6 (?) in Ohio & 2 (?) in CT. They get a disproportionate amount of coverage. People have really sharp opinions on a topic that really doesn't matter. I feel like we should be asking ourselves why & then should be asking why someone cares si much about fairness but doesn't care that two children were bullied by adults for looking transgender in their eyes at a middle school track meet. That's messed up. Governing bodies will figure out what to do. We don't need to have the answers & we don't need to beat up on a community that gets enough backlash as it is. That's really what this is about. Let's ignore how Democrats & Republicans both don't really care about helping working people because they've given us a punching bag to consume our time with.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
There are numerous. One, in fact, won a very prestigious award & scholarship at the Ohio High school Sports Award show for Central Ohio.
And just because there are more important issues doesn't mean this issue isn't important. That's sort of the "Hey it isn't murder" defense for something like sexual assault or rape.
I am not advocating one way or the other on this.
I wanted to verify the claim that there are "numerous" transgender athletes in Ohio and all that I could come up with was the article below. The article states that there are six. Do you have another source that shows there are more than that? If so, please post the link.
Also, please post the link with information about the award that the athlete in central Ohio won.
I'm not interested in calling out, shaming, or otherwise denegrating the individual here who was born male but identifies as female. Trans individuals face plenty of hatred and vitriol in their day-to-day lives, and I won't call out a name for purposes of winning an argument or making a point.
I am, however, suggesting that one can support an individual's right to pursue their own gender identity as one pleases, while ALSO preserving the sanctity and fairness of women's sports - a battle fought of many years, and one that continues today in oir sport. I remember women fighting for a chance to pole vault or run a full marathon. And today, we still have a heptathalon instead of a decathalon for women. Remnants of decades-old thinking that "women can't do".
Women not only deserve equal access to sport, they also deserve the opportunity to NOT compete against men. Which is what this debate is about. Sports. Not self-determination.
And if one is so inclined, the trans athlete who won a female award and accompanying scholarship is found among the award winners here -
So I guess if you feel as though you need a name to realize the very real impact trans athletes are having on women's sports, you'll find their name there. But I won't do that to them publicly.
This is 5313 - I did say I understand the unfairness of transgenders in girls sports. Thank you for your statement on gay kids getting beat up…..
My statement about decency is excessively generalized, you represent a good example of the exception. Don’t you will agree that there is some truth in it?
I think it boils down to this: Being transgender is a stressful process. And when part of society is so “hateful” toward you striking back though sports is a legit action.
But the people you say are "striking back through sports" here are males, and the people who are bearing the entire brunt of their "striking back" are females.
Yes, "being transgender is a stressful process." But that still doesn't mean it's "a legit action" for males who identify as transgender to take it out on the female population.
Lots of people go through all sorts of stressful processes and have a wide variety of difficult crosses to bear in life. Unfortunately, lots of people have experienced treatment from others in society that's "hateful" too. But that doesn't mean those with a hard row to hoe in life are entitled to trespass on other people's territory and take away other people's rights as compensation for their own troubles.
Once again my attempt to establish common ground is ignored and then attacked on a perceived flaw.
Your mature sensibilities and empathy are phony. These are just kids as our legal system validates. I was trying to show you how they must think. You on the other hand resort to Christian imagery with “cross to bear” to solicit support, as you demonize these kids, oblivious to the demand to love one another. If you were to do that these same kids would be trying to help your daughters run faster.
Sure. As long as by "sometimes" you mean never when there is any money on the line.
Untrue. The best athlete in the world could be a female mis-gendered at birth. They are as much a female as any female that matches their sex assigned at birth
You think the best athlete in the world is a woman? Huh?
Untrue. The best athlete in the world could be a female mis-gendered at birth. They are as much a female as any female that matches their sex assigned at birth
You think the best athlete in the world is a woman? Huh?
He/she is claiming that a man, who is the best athlete in the world, might identify as a woman and hence would be "as much of a (woman) as any (actual woman)."
Sure. As long as by "sometimes" you mean never when there is any money on the line.
Untrue. The best athlete in the world could be a female mis-gendered at birth. They are as much a female as any female that matches their sex assigned at birth
Genuine question here. Please dont think I'm being snarky. Why do you phrase it, "sex assigned at birth"?
"Assigned" suggests... open to interpretation.
When said person goes to the doctor, are they getting a pap smear or prostate exam?
The best athlete in the world could never be a female, no way, no how, that is impossible.
All we have with this gender/trans stuff is a few mentally deranged folks who need help. What is,.....Identify as.......you don't identify you accept who and what you are you don't pick and choose, how ridiculous is that? Men have a penis, it really does stop right there. You don't identify, that is total BS,
This trans stuff ready does need to stop, beyond stupid to begin with and we all see it.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Untrue. The best athlete in the world could be a female mis-gendered at birth. They are as much a female as any female that matches their sex assigned at birth
Genuine question here. Please dont think I'm being snarky. Why do you phrase it, "sex assigned at birth"?
"Assigned" suggests... open to interpretation.
When said person goes to the doctor, are they getting a pap smear or prostate exam?
How is this a matter of assignment?
If I said sex assigned at birth I misspoke. Mis-gendered of gender assigned at birth is what I meant.
Gender and sex, while often aligned, don't have to be.
"The legislation is sponsored by state Rep. Jena Powell, who claims that transgender women have physical advantages over those assigned female at birth, claiming transgender women have greater lung capacity, larger hearts, higher red blood cell counts, stronger tendons and ligaments, greater muscle strength, and increased bone density."
Claims?
As if there isn't a mountain of science to support all of this?
"Claims" suggests this is a position, an opinion or a debate.
Regardless, I did respond to the question at the end so I could see the results. At the time 514 people had responded.
Do you generally support or oppose laws that ban transgender people from participating in sports based on their assigned sex at birth?
85% strongly support these laws
4% Somewhat support
2% Somewhat oppose
7% Strongly oppose
1% have no opinion
Notice they used the big lie - "gender assigned at birth".
Genuine question here. Please dont think I'm being snarky. Why do you phrase it, "sex assigned at birth"?
"Assigned" suggests... open to interpretation.
When said person goes to the doctor, are they getting a pap smear or prostate exam?
How is this a matter of assignment?
If I said sex assigned at birth I misspoke. Mis-gendered of gender assigned at birth is what I meant.
Gender and sex, while often aligned, don't have to be.
Thanks for clarifying. So as it pertains to sports... should divisions be based on sex or gender? And how do you perceive them currently structured?
To those born before 1990, sex and gender were interchangeable terms. Semantics evolve, and now common usage is that these two are distinct and separate.
Which again begs the question... how do you feel sports divisions should be defined? What's fair? I contend is must be based on sex determined - not assigned - at birth.
Gender is fluid, it evolves, on a spectrum, etc. Basing sport divisions on gender is therefore an impossibility.
"The legislation is sponsored by state Rep. Jena Powell, who claims that transgender women have physical advantages over those assigned female at birth, claiming transgender women have greater lung capacity, larger hearts, higher red blood cell counts, stronger tendons and ligaments, greater muscle strength, and increased bone density."
Claims?
As if there isn't a mountain of science to support all of this?
"Claims" suggests this is a position, an opinion or a debate.
Regardless, I did respond to the question at the end so I could see the results. At the time 514 people had responded.
Do you generally support or oppose laws that ban transgender people from participating in sports based on their assigned sex at birth?
85% strongly support these laws
4% Somewhat support
2% Somewhat oppose
7% Strongly oppose
1% have no opinion
I was actually going to point out the same "claims" thing before I realized this thread was a few days old and someone almost certainly beat me to it. You know, though . . . the way that sentence is written, with six different common-sense advantages listed, I half wonder if despite the overall tone of the article, the author actually agrees with Rep. Powell on those points. I wrote for newspapers back in the day, and even though we naturally tried to be and appear neutral, my colleagues and I all had our biases and if we covered a person making an argument we disagreed with, we would never spell out their argument like that. Usually we'd paper over it or describe it vaguely, sometimes using loaded, choice words to convey the idea that the person was nuts without saying so outright. I can't prove that the author is doing what I'm speculating here, but it reads weird to my formerly-trained eye if the author does not in fact agree with the basic argument.
If I said sex assigned at birth I misspoke. Mis-gendered of gender assigned at birth is what I meant.
Gender and sex, while often aligned, don't have to be.
Thanks for clarifying. So as it pertains to sports... should divisions be based on sex or gender? And how do you perceive them currently structured?
To those born before 1990, sex and gender were interchangeable terms. Semantics evolve, and now common usage is that these two are distinct and separate.
Which again begs the question... how do you feel sports divisions should be defined? What's fair? I contend is must be based on sex determined - not assigned - at birth.
Gender is fluid, it evolves, on a spectrum, etc. Basing sport divisions on gender is therefore an impossibility.
How do you see it?
Y5f... will you please respond? I'm interested in your response to my post. I'm a lifelong liberal, committed to inclusivity, equality, etc, but this particular issue (sport fairness) has me leaning - I guess? - the other way. Though I do feel advocating for the preservation of the sanctity of women's sports is still a liberal stance. I am genuinely interested in hearing how you think.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.
