You are right, some people here are against the notion of trans-ness in general, but for the part most, the up-voted posters are not concerned about "ideology" but rather the fact that women are about 10% slower and weaker than men at every distance and in every sport.
That is not an ideology. That is just a physical reality. Women know this, so in the era of second wave feminism, they pushed to get their own competitions (Title IX). If males who identify as women enter that space, they will dominate it. Biological women have every right to expect that space to be protected, just like the masters and juniors divisions.
We have seen this issue in swimming, weightlifting, cycling, sprinting, the 800m, and every other sport where DSD and trans-women (which are not the same thing, by they way) have entered the competitive space. Where, in your view, is an "ideology" coming into that concern? It feels like biology to me.
I enjoy engaging with you on this topic and others. As far as athletics are concerned, biology is biology, but you need to concede that the current environment is one in which trans people have every right to be alarmed. Tennessee just passed a law forbidding any gender affirming care for minors and they are considering a similar law to even restrict care for adults. The state also passed a law banning drag shows. C’mon, that’s lame. It’s very hard to discuss fairness in sports in a vacuum. Human autonomy is under assault all across the country under many guises. Purists can argue that none of this matters on the starting line of a race, but it’s reality and needs to be recognized if any real progress is to be made. People with “unconventional” lifestyles and life choices have solid justification for feeling under assault. When you feel under assault, you don’t want to concede anything, even if it makes sense. There’s also a lot of hypocrisy. States are rushing to pass laws banning trans athletes from competing, but they are not rushing to pass laws ensuring true fairness in sports for biological women in terms of things like equal pay, equal access to facilities, etc. Why not? Trans inclusion is an issue that impacts the integrity of sports for women, but is it the BIGGEST issue? It’s sure getting a lot of attention. I see the issue of inclusion through this prism. Trans women should not be free to compete against biological women at higher levels of sport, but there is ample reason to view many of the proponents of this view with suspicion and to believe this is just the first front in an open war.
You are right, some people here are against the notion of trans-ness in general, but for the part most, the up-voted posters are not concerned about "ideology" but rather the fact that women are about 10% slower and weaker than men at every distance and in every sport.
That is not an ideology. That is just a physical reality. Women know this, so in the era of second wave feminism, they pushed to get their own competitions (Title IX). If males who identify as women enter that space, they will dominate it. Biological women have every right to expect that space to be protected, just like the masters and juniors divisions.
We have seen this issue in swimming, weightlifting, cycling, sprinting, the 800m, and every other sport where DSD and trans-women (which are not the same thing, by they way) have entered the competitive space. Where, in your view, is an "ideology" coming into that concern? It feels like biology to me.
I enjoy engaging with you on this topic and others. As far as athletics are concerned, biology is biology, but you need to concede that the current environment is one in which trans people have every right to be alarmed. Tennessee just passed a law forbidding any gender affirming care for minors and they are considering a similar law to even restrict care for adults. The state also passed a law banning drag shows. C’mon, that’s lame. It’s very hard to discuss fairness in sports in a vacuum. Human autonomy is under assault all across the country under many guises. Purists can argue that none of this matters on the starting line of a race, but it’s reality and needs to be recognized if any real progress is to be made. People with “unconventional” lifestyles and life choices have solid justification for feeling under assault. When you feel under assault, you don’t want to concede anything, even if it makes sense. There’s also a lot of hypocrisy. States are rushing to pass laws banning trans athletes from competing, but they are not rushing to pass laws ensuring true fairness in sports for biological women in terms of things like equal pay, equal access to facilities, etc. Why not? Trans inclusion is an issue that impacts the integrity of sports for women, but is it the BIGGEST issue? It’s sure getting a lot of attention. I see the issue of inclusion through this prism. Trans women should not be free to compete against biological women at higher levels of sport, but there is ample reason to view many of the proponents of this view with suspicion and to believe this is just the first front in an open war.
It is the biggest issue!!! All the crap you are adding to the thread is just bringing it off topic. Dudes don't belong in women's sports.
"Increasingly, trans athletes are dominating women’s sports at all levels."
18 states have banned trans athletes with one of the largest states, Texas, on track to pass a ban this legislative session. Anti-trans woman state legislation can subject girls to gential examination and measurement of very private parts of the female anatomy. And testosterone standards often pull in cis gender female athletes, setting off battles when a female athlete competes and is a standout success, leading parents and coaches to make baseless accusations of the athlete being trans. NCAA is leaving trans inclusion up to each sport. Other than Lia Thomas, there are no trans women who are competitive in NCAA individual sports. In short, trans athletes are not dominating women's sports and are mostly subject to discrimination and exclusion.
"Increasingly, trans athletes are dominating women’s sports at all levels."
18 states have banned trans athletes with one of the largest states, Texas, on track to pass a ban this legislative session. Anti-trans woman state legislation can subject girls to gential examination and measurement of very private parts of the female anatomy. And testosterone standards often pull in cis gender female athletes, setting off battles when a female athlete competes and is a standout success, leading parents and coaches to make baseless accusations of the athlete being trans. NCAA is leaving trans inclusion up to each sport. Other than Lia Thomas, there are no trans women who are competitive in NCAA individual sports. In short, trans athletes are not dominating women's sports and are mostly subject to discrimination and exclusion.
The state sports bans are bogus but the NCAA, IOC and governing bodies need to do something at a higher level.
I am also in support of thre being a wait period to compete at the varsity level in high school sports if you competed previously on the men's team. Like a full year.
"Increasingly, trans athletes are dominating women’s sports at all levels."
18 states have banned trans athletes with one of the largest states, Texas, on track to pass a ban this legislative session. Anti-trans woman state legislation can subject girls to gential examination and measurement of very private parts of the female anatomy. And testosterone standards often pull in cis gender female athletes, setting off battles when a female athlete competes and is a standout success, leading parents and coaches to make baseless accusations of the athlete being trans. NCAA is leaving trans inclusion up to each sport. Other than Lia Thomas, there are no trans women who are competitive in NCAA individual sports. In short, trans athletes are not dominating women's sports and are mostly subject to discrimination and exclusion.
The state sports bans are bogus but the NCAA, IOC and governing bodies need to do something at a higher level.
I am also in support of thre being a wait period to compete at the varsity level in high school sports if you competed previously on the men's team. Like a full year.
In most states there isn’t a requirement for hormone treatments so what is the purpose of your waiting period?
The state sports bans are bogus but the NCAA, IOC and governing bodies need to do something at a higher level.
I am also in support of thre being a wait period to compete at the varsity level in high school sports if you competed previously on the men's team. Like a full year.
World Aquatics (FINA), UCI and World Triathlon have all introduced the new rules, and World Athletics will have a new rule soon.
Other sports can do the same. IOC says they will leave the issue to each sport, so it's up to each IF. And NCAA says the same.
I have one suggestion to UCI and World Athletics. They should adapt a long wait period like World Triathlon. They should also ban anyone from switching the gender category once they competed in one category after 18. That will address the transgender issue without affecting DSD athletes.
The state sports bans are bogus but the NCAA, IOC and governing bodies need to do something at a higher level.
I am also in support of thre being a wait period to compete at the varsity level in high school sports if you competed previously on the men's team. Like a full year.
In most states there isn’t a requirement for hormone treatments so what is the purpose of your waiting period?
15 states and DC do not have any hormone requirements. 15 out of 50 is not "most."
In most states there isn’t a requirement for hormone treatments so what is the purpose of your waiting period?
15 states and DC do not have any hormone requirements. 15 out of 50 is not "most."
In most states that do allow transgender athletes, which is what the poster was referring to, hormone treatments are not required.
Yes, many red states have banned both HS and college transgender athletes; but if one improbably shows up they could challenge the ban in court and probably win which would increase the total of 15 states you referred to.
15 states and DC do not have any hormone requirements. 15 out of 50 is not "most."
In most states that do allow transgender athletes, which is what the poster was referring to, hormone treatments are not required.
Yes, many red states have banned both HS and college transgender athletes; but if one improbably shows up they could challenge the ban in court and probably win which would increase the total of 15 states you referred to.
The only thing that can be successfully sued is a total ban. So the states with no restrictions will not increase.
The state sports bans are bogus but the NCAA, IOC and governing bodies need to do something at a higher level.
I am also in support of thre being a wait period to compete at the varsity level in high school sports if you competed previously on the men's team. Like a full year.
World Aquatics (FINA), UCI and World Triathlon have all introduced the new rules, and World Athletics will have a new rule soon.
Other sports can do the same. IOC says they will leave the issue to each sport, so it's up to each IF. And NCAA says the same.
I have one suggestion to UCI and World Athletics. They should adapt a long wait period like World Triathlon. They should also ban anyone from switching the gender category once they competed in one category after 18. That will address the transgender issue without affecting DSD athletes.
Transgender athletes are smart enough to know what a ban looks like and these new rules effectively are one.
Are you so brainwashed that you forgot the man in the women powerlifting in the Olympics? Or the men in competitive cycling? Or the Man who ran in the USA Olympic trial? Maybe get your head out of your butt and look around.
Are you so brainwashed that you forgot the man in the women powerlifting in the Olympics? Or the men in competitive cycling? Or the Man who ran in the USA Olympic trial? Maybe get your head out of your butt and look around.
There is no Olympic powerlifting. Powerlifting and weightlifting are two different sports.
Are you so brainwashed that you forgot the man in the women powerlifting in the Olympics? Or the men in competitive cycling? Or the Man who ran in the USA Olympic trial? Maybe get your head out of your butt and look around.
I don’t have to have my head in my butt to not believe your examples are the first steps to the end of women’s sports.
In most states that do allow transgender athletes, which is what the poster was referring to, hormone treatments are not required.
Yes, many red states have banned both HS and college transgender athletes; but if one improbably shows up they could challenge the ban in court and probably win which would increase the total of 15 states you referred to.
The only thing that can be successfully sued is a total ban. So the states with no restrictions will not increase.
Where is that written? There is no requirement for any new policies to be “reasonable”?
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