There was one amusing aspect while watching the replay today on ACC Network. The infield reporter Hailey Hunter said she spoke to Shawn Wilbourn earlier in the week and his one message to the team was, "Turn your brains off."
I guess some of them accomplished that.
Also in watching the replay I noted that many Duke runners were holding the baton near the very bottom. So instead of no coaching it may be a case of poor coaching.
Watch enough Duke 400m women, they have very side-to-side form with the arms. When I saw the thread topic I knew that that technique might be involved.
Yet again, another reason not to carry the baton in your right hand.
Cons to right hand:
-Baton travels longer distance.
I agree that a left-hand carry is generally good in the 4x4, but some of these posts are just trash.
"Baton travels longer distance"?? Give your head a shake.
Anyone who has ever run a proper 4x1 knows that the bend runners (1 and 3) should carry in their RIGHT hand, as this allows them to run the inside of their lane with less risk of the baton contacting competitors. The BODY should travel the shortest possible distance, not the baton, lol.
(For those who need a lesson, yes, the straightaway runners (2 and 4) take the baton with their LEFT hand behind them. The idea is that the baton travels in the middle of the lane. Make sense? (Some will remember that Bolt always switched from left to right AFTER the exchange, because he was more comfortable with that carry.)
My notes here are for the 4x1, of course, but also to point out how stupid the quote above is.
The moment the baton goes out of bounds there is no way the runner could have retrieved it, correct? Obviously she had already crossed the finish line.
The moment the baton goes out of bounds there is no way the runner could have retrieved it, correct? Obviously she had already crossed the finish line.
Rule 7, Section 7
ARTICLE 5. In all relays around the track, the baton must be passed between teammates within the defined 20 meter exchange zone. For the 4x400 and longer relays, each exchange zone shall be 20 meters. The exchange zones shall start and finish at the edges of the zone nearest the start line on the direction of the run. The baton must be passed, not thrown, by each runner to the succeeding runner. The passing of the baton commences when the baton is first touched by the outgoing runner and is completed when the baton is solely in the possession of the outgoing runner. If, in a genuine attempt to pass the baton, it is dropped within the passing zone, either runner may retrieve it. A baton dropped outside the passing zone must be recovered by the person who dropped it. The runner recovering the baton may leave the assigned lane or track provided no other runner is impeded and the distance to be covered is not lessened. A member of a relay team may not run outside the passing zone for the purpose of taking the baton from a faltering or fallen teammate. In all relay exchanges, runners shall start within their exchange zone. If a runner does not follow this rule, their team shall be disqualified.
It took me a while to find the race because the video was not cued up to it. The coverage of the heat with Duke and Miami starts around 18:50 (the race several minutes later), and they're going through replays still past 27 and 28. While it is false that the Miami runner didn't knock the baton out of her hand--she did, on her backswing--the fault was the Duke runner for using the Abby Steiner arm motion (outside and diagonally up and in toward the middle of her torso), with the baton on the right instead of left with a runner next to her, and edging into lane two instead of sticking in lane one. By that point, the Miami runner was all the way into lane two, so the Blue Devil had plenty of room. Unfortunate, but also preventable. They all ran very well, and a real shame to lose the race, the ACC championships 4x400m, the NCAA qualifier, and the school record all at one blow.
I don’t know the rules here, but if Miami intentionally hit the baton out (which they didn’t, the Duke runner was 100% at fault), does Miami get DQed and Duke win, or how does it work? If both teams get DQed, it could create some bad situations sportsmanship be aside.
Something similar to this happened at an NAIA National Indoor meet back in the day (1978). Abilene Christian and Jackson State were tied with 75 points and had the #1 and #2 mile relays, and the 1st and 2nd place finishers in the 440 on those relays. Jackson State had the lead on the anchor but the Abilene Christian runner passed him on the final straight, and elbows were thrown. The Jackson State runner got knocked off the track (to the inside), threw down the baton in disgust and didn't finish. The Abilene Christian runner was disqualified and the schools ended up as co-champions. Pretty tense times sharing the podium, as I recall.
LRC addition: What you will see below is the final lap of the 4 x 400 at ACCs. Duke (white) and Miami (black) are battling it out for the 4 x 400 title. If Duke finishes 6th or higher, they are the team champions.
they needed to come 6th or better to win ACCs and the womens 4x4 anchor leg drops the baton with a half meter to go after contact with Miami and doesn’t go back for it. As a result, Duke didn’t win the 4x4 and they came 2nd overall in the ACCs. Wild ride. Then the coaching staff went crazy at the officials.
What I most hate is that the rules push the athletes towards being uncompetitive. It's true that Duke could have hung back and taken a lesser place, being safe to ensure that they won the meet. Then,
-- They would have been giving up their chance to win the ACC title in the 4x400m -- They might have been too far back to qualify for NCAAs -- We all would have been robbed of this exciting finish
How does any of that help anyone? I'm in the camp that the Duke anchor was clearly at fault, and by the rules, should have been disqualified. So I don't blame the officials or the Miami runner. Given the circumstances, the Duke coaches and athletes made the wrong decision.
But is that really what we want from the sport? Why aren't the rules such that Duke can just be put behind Miami in the results or get a time penalty? Why is it that in the closest--and therefore most exciting--team battles, the "right" thing to do is so often to be more risk-averse and cautious?
Many sports are like this. If you are winning in basketball, you run the shot clock down. In soccer, you sub in better defenders. In baseball, your infielders stand further back and guard the corners. In football, you run instead of pass. In golf, you go for the green in 2 instead trying to make it over the water. McKayla Maroney would have a gold medal in the vault if she didn't try to stick the landing and instead took a little step.
And it extends beyond that. To chess, to war, to elections, to wild animal hunts, to investing. Bulls and bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.
It is not the rules. It is the nature of competition.
Even though I dislike Duke, I feel bad for the team. Solid effort despite the fumble.
A silver lining is that all of the dads on here with kids in relays are showing them this race and explaining the proper technique. After these ACC and SEC conference meet relays, there will hopefully be fewer baton drops across HS and College moving forward.
Agree that holding baton left and at the mid point prevents all of it from happening.
Still there are questions.
If the Duke athlete retrieved the baton from the infield and did so by leaving the track is it a DQ? is it a DQ if she did so by only having one foot off the track or is only if it’s both feet?
If the baton rolled under the elevated track (video shows it was close) can the athlete get on the ground and retrieve it? This is in lane 1 and may impede athletes still finishing.
I agree that a left-hand carry is generally good in the 4x4, but some of these posts are just trash.
I am really not convinced that the left hand carry is better, if both athletes had been carrying in their left hand, Miami's baton would have been knocked out.
Potentially, athletes could swap the baton based on what lane they were in (ie keep in left hand on lane one, switch to right hand when moving outside to pass), but IMO switching hands is always the worst option, its just too risky at speed, also remembering to switch seems unlikely in the heat of the moment.
Which ever hand you choose, there is some likelyhood of contact with the baton unless you are always in the lead and never have to pass anyone, which just isn't realistic to expect at most levels.
So, contact is possible regardless of which hand the baton is in. IMO, the athlete should carry in their dominant hand, because they are more likely to hold onto than when its in their weaker hand.
Agree that holding baton left and at the mid point prevents all of it from happening.
Still there are questions.
If the Duke athlete retrieved the baton from the infield and did so by leaving the track is it a DQ? is it a DQ if she did so by only having one foot off the track or is only if it’s both feet?
If the baton rolled under the elevated track (video shows it was close) can the athlete get on the ground and retrieve it? This is in lane 1 and may impede athletes still finishing.
And I also wondered this: suppose the runner crosses the line, as she did, and then goes to retrieve the baton and then crosses the line again. Which one is the finish? And do the judges have the authority to say that she crossed the finish line with the baton (the second time) and therefore had a legitimate finish?
She was 1 stride from the finish flying through the air, how is she supposed to go back for it?
She turns around. Picks it up and walks over the line! That easy. She had prob 10 seconds to do it and they still Win the team title. This is why coaches talk about this in practice or should! They need to tell their runners to be prepared for this and how to react! Just like if you get tripped and go down.
That was the track & field equivalent of Russell Wilson wanting to be the Super Bowl XLIX MVP by going for the goal line fade route instead of handing off the ball to Marshawn Lynch.
She was 1 stride from the finish flying through the air, how is she supposed to go back for it?
She turns around. Picks it up and walks over the line! That easy. She had prob 10 seconds to do it and they still Win the team title. This is why coaches talk about this in practice or should! They need to tell their runners to be prepared for this and how to react! Just like if you get tripped and go down.
Once she crossed the finish line without the baton, that was no longer an option. You aren't allowed to cross the finish line without the baton, cross back over, get the baton, and then cross the finish line a second time.
She dropped the baton less than two meters before the finish line. There was no way she would be able to process what happened and get herself stopped before she crossed the finish line to go and get the baton.
I do agree with most here. The Duke coaches need to do better.
She was 1 stride from the finish flying through the air, how is she supposed to go back for it?
Wow. What a freaking finish.
This brings back fears I had when I used to coach. If we weren't up by more than 10 heading into the 4 x 400, I always feared something like this.
I'm glad it was an auto DQ and thought the announcers were harsh on her for not going back to get the baton. I don't think she could have done it in 7 seconds anyway. It would be really hard to do it that quick.
I mean if you told someone running an all out 400, once you finish turn around go to the infield grab a baton and come back maybe they could do iti n 7 seconds but here it's going to take a a few seconds to realize what happened, then go back.
Rojo, did you ever fear excessive celebration by Jimmy Wyner?
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