I’m not sure I believe in such a thing. Obviously championships are the most important races but results on the circuit have their own merit.
I want it to be this way and I certainly take it into account somewhat. Until the sport does a better job of emphasizing the circuit, the championships will be far and away how one’s year is evaluated.
“Lagat not being American born does kind of taint things.” How do you explain this taint? I would be more concerned about the taint of doping at NOP, which you seem to ignore as you say Centro had to compete against dopers. Lagat too may be tainted by doping, but not by being born in Kenya.
Ok yeah. But Centro gets tested more than most in the world. He doesn’t scoot off to remote Kenya for training camps etc. he’s in park city getting tests sometimes daily. If he can noticeably dope through all that… then kudos.
Realistically we know his trajectory from college matches up. He legit outkicked Lagat when he was still in college.
Centro will be remembered like Josy Barthel, the best 1500 runner Luxembourg ever produced.
There has been 29 summer olympics held i believe. All of them had 1500m events (for men).
Centro should probably be in the top 30 1500m/milers of all time based on this. I would rank him 29th/30th on the basis that this race was one of the weakest ever (slow, poor performance not in the spirit of the Olympics from all the participants) at the Oly.
Centro will be remembered like Josy Barthel, the best 1500 runner Luxembourg ever produced.
There has been 29 summer olympics held i believe. All of them had 1500m events (for men).
Centro should probably be in the top 30 1500m/milers of all time based on this. I would rank him 29th/30th on the basis that this race was one of the weakest ever (slow, poor performance not in the spirit of the Olympics from all the participants) at the Oly.
I would add that every 1500 champion from 1960 was a better runner than Centro, allowing for the difference in eras - with the exceptions of the dopers in 2008 and probably 2012.
There has been 29 summer olympics held i believe. All of them had 1500m events (for men).
Centro should probably be in the top 30 1500m/milers of all time based on this. I would rank him 29th/30th on the basis that this race was one of the weakest ever (slow, poor performance not in the spirit of the Olympics from all the participants) at the Oly.
I would add that every 1500 champion from 1960 was a better runner than Centro, allowing for the difference in eras - with the exceptions of the dopers in 2008 and probably 2012.
Centro is my favorite runner of all time and I’ve followed track since the mid 1970s. Possibly the most savvy runner I’ve ever seen and just like I do in other sports, he’s the US Mile Goat because he shined brightest in the championships. Plenty of regular season stats hounds fold in the playoffs. And Kiprop was caught doping and a few others who beat him in championships, like Mahloofi no doubt, were muddy which only elevates his greatness.
For the decade of 2010-2019, he excelled in the Olympics, Worlds and US Championships. Maybe he never broke the US record but I would have rather won an Olympic Gold (or any medal) than a national record, and I don’t think anyone else who is or was a competitive athlete would disagree.
His Olympic Gold should have been on the front page of newspapers and magazines across the country and he should be a household name but T&F hasn’t returned to the heights of the 70s and I don’t see it ever returning. Maybe McLaughlin or Kerley became household names but distance runners are less popular than video gamers…
I would add that every 1500 champion from 1960 was a better runner than Centro, allowing for the difference in eras - with the exceptions of the dopers in 2008 and probably 2012.
None of them was a better racer, though.
Since they all won and in much better times than Centro I think you might be wrong. All you're saying is he was luckier than any of them.
Since they all won and in much better times than Centro I think you might be wrong. All you're saying is he was luckier than any of them.
Not sure you understand how championship racing works. What was centro supposed to do? Start time trialing to appease the letsrun trolls in their parents' basements?
Since they all won and in much better times than Centro I think you might be wrong. All you're saying is he was luckier than any of them.
Not sure you understand how championship racing works. What was centro supposed to do? Start time trialing to appease the letsrun trolls in their parents' basements?
So what that he won? It was a crap race. It wasn't a 1500 race - it was a one lap melee that wasn't even run by 400 specialists. Sheesh. The slowest championship 1500 since 1932. And you guys think that makes him the best-ever US md runner. You set a pretty low bar.
Since they all won and in much better times than Centro I think you might be wrong. All you're saying is he was luckier than any of them.
Centro, Jr. raced a bunch of guys who were better than him on paper, and beat them in the biggest race. He's not wrong on this.
That's the luck part. His competition were idiots to leave everything to the last 400. Brainless and gutless. It was slower than every championship race since 1932. Lovelock ran faster in '36 - to set a wr - and won gold.
Nobody can ever win this debate. Centro is in the conversation due to an Olympic gold medal. Without it nobody would think he was top 5. Centro is lucky but he made his own luck. We cannot settle this debate. Not possible.
Before I get torn apart with the classic "one performance doesn't make you the best", let me remind you what our sport is. Especially when talking about Olympic performances, arguably the pinnacle of track, an athlete spends 4 years training for one race. Less than 4 minutes to use years of training against the best athletes in the world who have all peaked for this same moment.
Clutch performances like these are what cement athletes across all sports, as the greatest. The fact that the Olympics is only every 4 years is INSANE. Imagine if the super bowl was every 4 years, coinciding with Olympic years, so: 2004, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020. Guess how many rings Tom Brady would have then? Only one. In 2004. In Centrowitz's career he has had basically 2 shots to win Olympic gold (I'm not counting 2020 because he was clearly struggling with age/injury). In 2012 he was only 23 and finished 4th in London. And in 2016, in his athletic prime, his best shot to make Olympic glory, Centrowitz beat one of the greatest fields EVER assembled.
Let's talk about who Centro beat in 2016:
Asbel Kiprop: 3:26.7 - (3rd fastest time EVER, 2008 GOLD medalist, 3x WORLD CHAMP)
Nick Willis: 3:29.6 (24th fastest time EVER, 2008 SILVER medalist)
This is a STACKED Field, and for reference, Centro had run 3:30 at Monaco in 2015. In 2016 his fastest time was 3:34. And what's almost even crazier is that Centro turned it into a kickers race, and with an 800 PR of only 1:44.6 he OUTKICKED a 1:42.6 guy, a 1:42.9 guy, and a 1:43.1 guy. There was no scenario in which Centro should have won this race, and to win it from the front, something that no other American middle distance runner would dare to do, is incredible.
The last American 1500m Olympic champion was in 1908! The last 800m champion, in 1972! After that, the Kenyan dominance in both events had been nearly insurmountable. Until Centrowitz conquered them all.
I mostly agree with you. Good analysis. Especially when you combine it with two WC medals, Centro was probably the savviest US middle distance runner of all time. Hard to pick a GOAT though. An Olympic gold certainly puts him right at the top. I would like to have seen him break 3:30 in the 1500 though, preferably more than once (which he never did) and to try to move up to the 5000 to medal in 2021. He certainly had the capability to go 12:50 and kick with the best, but he refused to move up.
Nobody can ever win this debate. Centro is in the conversation due to an Olympic gold medal. Without it nobody would think he was top 5. Centro is lucky but he made his own luck. We cannot settle this debate. Not possible.
You've just settled it. "Luck" doesn't make you the best ever US md runner.
Before I get torn apart with the classic "one performance doesn't make you the best", let me remind you what our sport is. Especially when talking about Olympic performances, arguably the pinnacle of track, an athlete spends 4 years training for one race. Less than 4 minutes to use years of training against the best athletes in the world who have all peaked for this same moment.
Clutch performances like these are what cement athletes across all sports, as the greatest. The fact that the Olympics is only every 4 years is INSANE. Imagine if the super bowl was every 4 years, coinciding with Olympic years, so: 2004, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020. Guess how many rings Tom Brady would have then? Only one. In 2004. In Centrowitz's career he has had basically 2 shots to win Olympic gold (I'm not counting 2020 because he was clearly struggling with age/injury). In 2012 he was only 23 and finished 4th in London. And in 2016, in his athletic prime, his best shot to make Olympic glory, Centrowitz beat one of the greatest fields EVER assembled.
Let's talk about who Centro beat in 2016:
Asbel Kiprop: 3:26.7 - (3rd fastest time EVER, 2008 GOLD medalist, 3x WORLD CHAMP)
Nick Willis: 3:29.6 (24th fastest time EVER, 2008 SILVER medalist)
This is a STACKED Field, and for reference, Centro had run 3:30 at Monaco in 2015. In 2016 his fastest time was 3:34. And what's almost even crazier is that Centro turned it into a kickers race, and with an 800 PR of only 1:44.6 he OUTKICKED a 1:42.6 guy, a 1:42.9 guy, and a 1:43.1 guy. There was no scenario in which Centro should have won this race, and to win it from the front, something that no other American middle distance runner would dare to do, is incredible.
The last American 1500m Olympic champion was in 1908! The last 800m champion, in 1972! After that, the Kenyan dominance in both events had been nearly insurmountable. Until Centrowitz conquered them all.
I mostly agree with you. Good analysis. Especially when you combine it with two WC medals, Centro was probably the savviest US middle distance runner of all time. Hard to pick a GOAT though. An Olympic gold certainly puts him right at the top. I would like to have seen him break 3:30 in the 1500 though, preferably more than once (which he never did) and to try to move up to the 5000 to medal in 2021. He certainly had the capability to go 12:50 and kick with the best, but he refused to move up.
He should have got a special medal for the slowest championship 1500 in 84 years.
I mostly agree with you. Good analysis. Especially when you combine it with two WC medals, Centro was probably the savviest US middle distance runner of all time. Hard to pick a GOAT though. An Olympic gold certainly puts him right at the top. I would like to have seen him break 3:30 in the 1500 though, preferably more than once (which he never did) and to try to move up to the 5000 to medal in 2021. He certainly had the capability to go 12:50 and kick with the best, but he refused to move up.
He should have got a special medal for the slowest championship 1500 in 84 years.
Armstronglivs really just ruins every thread he touches.
Centro, Jr. raced a bunch of guys who were better than him on paper, and beat them in the biggest race. He's not wrong on this.
That's the luck part. His competition were idiots to leave everything to the last 400. Brainless and gutless. It was slower than every championship race since 1932. Lovelock ran faster in '36 - to set a wr - and won gold.
Spoken like a hateful, spiteful, ignorant hater of the sport.
More importantly, though, the title is no longer true.
Athing Mu now has a better global medal haul (Olympic Gold, WC gold, WC bronze) than Centro does (Olympic gold, WC silver, WC bronze). She also has the national record in her event, while Centro not only doesn’t have it, but has never set the national record in any Olympic event.
The greatest US middle distance runner is Mu, not Centro.
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