Help a guy out wrote:
what is double threshold?
Flavor of the week.
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zxcvxvcz wrote:
Woody says that he shifted to double thresholds when he was training on his own, and then continued doing so with Mike Smith. He has trained with the NAU guys for three weeks now, and they've been doing double thresholds three times a week, pretty much the same as Jakob. Woody describes this as 6 miles of intervals at threshold pace in the morning and again in the afternoon, in contrast to doing it all in one long tempo with Jerry--a ten mile tempo. Then they started on race specific sessions this month as well. You can easily see how an athlete who was always getting injured with Jerry would excel, at least in the short term, with this kind of training, which is much easier to get through without injury.
You are taking a generalized comment by Kincaid and grossly misunderstanding it. You clearly don't understand how training works and have no context as to how Schumacher or Smith prepare their athletes. There is plenty of publicly available information and you haven't read a word of it.
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The apple wrote:
Keep in mind BTC went above and beyond publicly and all over social media to support Shelby after she tested positive. Why not take praise your long time athlete who is now a free agent and just broke the American record?
It'd be a pretty sly, passive aggressive move (so right up Flanagan's alley) to heap praise on Kincaid at this point given that anyone with half a brain knows the 12:51 is him reaping the benefits of several years of BTC training. Same deal as when Ritzenhein ran 12:56 four months after switching coaches. Alberto even said, "Brad Hudson baked the cake, I just iced it." Mike Smith is licking the frosting from the spoon as we speak baby.
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Wise Old Man wrote:
bloviating wrote:
It was better than the first one out there by Citrus mag. Kincaid just can’t speak in complete sentence and finish thoughts. Good luck to him but nobody should ever forget that BTC gave him an opportunity and put him on the map. Double threshold may be the short term icing on top.
I don’t know any of the personalities involved, but it seems like Woody is having a nice time, or at least more relaxed time, with the new guys. Ultimately, substance matters, but maybe just maybe it’s more fun to spend your time with Luis, Abdi, Drew and Mike than with Grant, Evan, Sean, Marc and Jerry. Or maybe Marc was his buddy and then he left, or who knows. Fisher seems like a great person, but maybe he’s too nerdy, just wants to talk about engineering during the long runs. You think as pros, none of this should matter, but it does of course. Just people in the workplace with all the usual dynamics.
You don’t know what you ate talking about.
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I think Gault did a good job on the interview, but he acted surprised by the news that Woody's father had passed away, and so does Wejo here. "First he revealed his dad died last year." Um, Woody did not "reveal" this news. Runner's World had features on Woody's dying father making it to Trials and then watching the Olympics from home in his final months of life. And the news of Michael's death was on social media when it happened in November 2021. I wish the LetsRun guys would read the journalism that is being put out by other outlets:
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How often pro runners set 5K pb's at age 30?
Did he just not do the best possible training all this time?
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.28 -
Mugwumps wrote:
You don’t know what you ate talking about.
Why don’t you enlighten us?
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Maybe I'm miss remembering this, but didn't Woody set his prior PR (12:58) right after an altitude camp? Perhaps he is just a super responder to altitude training. Would sort of make since given the physiology he's displayed.
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I wonder if Schumacher congratulated him?
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adobe wrote:
The apple wrote:
Keep in mind BTC went above and beyond publicly and all over social media to support Shelby after she tested positive. Why not take praise your long time athlete who is now a free agent and just broke the American record?
It'd be a pretty sly, passive aggressive move (so right up Flanagan's alley) to heap praise on Kincaid at this point given that anyone with half a brain knows the 12:51 is him reaping the benefits of several years of BTC training. Same deal as when Ritzenhein ran 12:56 four months after switching coaches. Alberto even said, "Brad Hudson baked the cake, I just iced it." Mike Smith is licking the frosting from the spoon as we speak baby.
Or it’s simply taking the high road and recognizing the accomplishments of a guy that built his career with your team. Not passive aggressive at all.
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McRunnin wrote:
Yodel wrote:
Woody made it clear that he was upset about the move to Eugene and also the possibility of being a lesser priority due to Jerry coaching the Ducks.
Yet Mike Smith coaches the NAU team. How is that different than Jerry coaching the Ducks?
Plus moving from Portland to Flagstaff is a much bigger change than moving from Portland to Eugene.
One difference - NAU is in Flagstaff, incidentally where BTC is currently training. Jerry is in Eugene and can't come with the team to altitude.
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adobe wrote:
zxcvxvcz wrote:
Woody says that he shifted to double thresholds when he was training on his own, and then continued doing so with Mike Smith. He has trained with the NAU guys for three weeks now, and they've been doing double thresholds three times a week, pretty much the same as Jakob. Woody describes this as 6 miles of intervals at threshold pace in the morning and again in the afternoon, in contrast to doing it all in one long tempo with Jerry--a ten mile tempo. Then they started on race specific sessions this month as well. You can easily see how an athlete who was always getting injured with Jerry would excel, at least in the short term, with this kind of training, which is much easier to get through without injury.
You are taking a generalized comment by Kincaid and grossly misunderstanding it. You clearly don't understand how training works and have no context as to how Schumacher or Smith prepare their athletes. There is plenty of publicly available information and you haven't read a word of it.
You're obviously one of those types who wants to appear intelligent by saying something harsh with no basis whatsoever. Not a word I said was in any way inaccurate and your comment does not in any way correct anything I said. I have been reading this stuff about how Schumacher and Smith prepare their athletes for a long time, to the extent that Jerry workouts are even reported. (The Alan Webb notebook was one case). I'm reporting a specific comment made by Kincaid. He said he was doing double thresholds by himself and then doing them with Smith, with the addition of specific work relative to races. That's just a fact. He also compared those workouts, six miles of intervals at T in the morning and evening three times a week, to Jerry's tempos--not to his other workouts. Jerry gives other workouts than 10M tempos. That is what Woody compared to the double thresholds, similar mileage but all at once, not in two sessions with intervals. Jerry also has them do a lot of long track sessions, and Marc Scott also talked about very high speed workouts as well recently. If you can't name a single thing that is inaccurate, then you have added nothing.
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Woody's frequent injuries and inability to finish BTC workouts were also widely reported, so the health component is accurate as well.
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But he couldn't stay healthy long enough at BTC to do this. That's not just icing. By not adapting to Woody's injury history, Jerry prevented this from happening. Salazar deserves more credit for Ritz's performances as well, because Hudson wasn't optimizing his training at all. Salazar had Ritz do the high speed necessary to run 12:56 (hitting 56s in practice, which he'd never done before, was one thing that Ritz mentioned at the time). Jerry built Woody fast but creaky. Time away from Jerry on a healthier workout routine allowed him to run 12:51.
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Wise Old Man wrote:
Mugwumps wrote:
You don’t know what you ate talking about.
Why don’t you enlighten us?
Grant and Woody are very good friends. Outside of running, they traveled together in Europe when season was over.
You don’t know what you are talking about.
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Well actually it seemed at first Woody was just going to train himself. So I could see Jerry saying that's a bad idea. Woody even says, I never wrote a plan for myself so I just did double thresholds bc that's what I could do. Thankfully it's all working out for him,. But it's possible it might not have, but seems like he's happy with Mike smiths group which is good.
We also need to keep in mind woody could be sugarcoating things. Pro athletes lie in interviews all the time unfortunately.
Very happy for his 1251 though and all the critique of him in this thread is idiotic.
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rojo wrote:
McRunnin wrote:
Yet Mike Smith coaches the NAU team. How is that different than Jerry coaching the Ducks?
Plus moving from Portland to Flagstaff is a much bigger change than moving from Portland to Eugene.
Thank you. All the Jerry haters can go crawl under a rock.
People are misunderstanding the tone of Jerry's quote. People are acting like Jerry doesn't want Woody to be great. I'd bet my life that is wrong.
And people are assuming Jerry said it in an angry way.
There are few better coaching success stories in US pro history that I'm aware of than Jerry Schumacher and Woody Kincaid. I'm sure he wants Woody to be great. It's like a dad talking to his kid. You tell them your opinion, "I think you are making a mistake," they agree or disagree (and if they disagree it may motivate them) and life goes on.
And it's very funny that people are like "How dare Jerry coach a college team and pros at the same time" when Mike S does that as well and Jerry does because Phil MF Knight wants him to.
LOL Jerry always gets the benefit of the doubt on here.
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Who ran 1251... Yeah must be a real lazy guy... Lol.
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Sister Christian wrote:
Meh, he ran an indoor AR and called out his old coach after he was out the door. I know that might look great up close but it doesn’t indicate anything profound. I don’t care for Schumacher but I’m not thirsty for dirt on the guy like so many on here. Woody probably just shot his wad.
Curious if the wad comment is somehow about his comments, or his time? Because if it’s the latter, the list of runners (and especially US runners) who retired with faster PRs is really short. It’s a REALLY good lifetime wad, of course.
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I thought Gault's best line of questioning was about his mentality as a kicker. It gets into Woody's self-definition as such, and I think it made him actually consider if he *could* impart a little more hurt earlier on in races, stay in closer contact...and still be a kicker. The ability to kick off an even faster pace, where you are nearer to the leaders, is top of game stuff.
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