Running under 4:20 in the mile at age 41

76 healthy person wrote:

Based on my own comeback experience, you're making a number of mistakes.

#1- You're not running every day. Walking, biking, and gym stuff are not running. You need to actually RUN every day in order to progress and develop what you've lost. Running entails getting off the ground with each stride.

Jogging barefoot for 10' on the treadmill each day would be much better compared to what you've been doing. Daily bouncing from one foot to the other while swinging the opposite leg forward 100 times in a doorway can be helpful for a warmup (my version of the 100 ups exercise).

#2- Doing a time trial on a trail was asking for trouble, and you got it. You need to have a flat smooth surface for a time trial, either a track or else a similar smooth flat level surface.

#3- Running uses your calves completely differently than cycling, which is exactly why they started hurting. You'll be lucky if you didn't already get injured. You need to take it easy at the start and gradually build up the running movements and tissues.

#4- As you get used to getting off the ground and your calves get used to the exercise, you could start doing some moderate 100m repeats or the equivalent, not for speed, but simply to get used to getting off the ground, which is strengthening for your unused muscles, tendons and ligaments. Also it's a step up in getting your calves and rest of your legs used to the exercise.

#5- Walking can help your progress, but it's not a substitute for the necessity to keep doing some running each day and progressing. Cycling and gym work won't help your running at all and are more likely to be counter productive.

Shiveman wrote:

Thanks for the post - I did a mile TT today. Felt great warming up and even did a few strides (the plan was to run around 7 minutes, so I wasn't going to bother). On the last one, I went full gas and was blown away with how fast the legs turned over. I instantly got excited and decided to run harder than originally planned. I got some video of the sprint that I will post on my channel. The TT wasn't ideal. It was on a horse trail with mud and rocks, on/off rain, cold and not completely flat. I started off at 6-minute pace and that felt moderate. The last-minute plan was to switch into race mode with 800 meters to go and be at full gas the last 200 meters. At around 800 meters my calf started to feel funny and by 1200 meters it hurt so I decided to stop. My NGP was 5:37 for around 1200 meters (El Gain 54 El Lost 79). I'm a bit bummed because I was ready to launch the last 800 meters. I don't think it's a serious injury as I was able to MTB right after with minimal pain. The interesting thing is that I hit a new HR max of 186 which is incredible because I absolutely destroy myself MTB racing. The TT didn't seem like I was going that hard and it was the same H10 I use on the bike.

I'm doing exactly that, running (mostly walking) in the morning and riding in the afternoon. The only major bike difference this year is that I'm reducing the number of base hours and using that time for gym work and running. Agree with eliminating the running timeline, especially since I'm already having an issue with my calf.

It's a small setback that could have/should have been prevented. I've literally only been on two runs longer than 5-minutes in continuous duration, everything else has been walking or a combination of running/walking. A few days off, then back at it...

Spiked for Life wrote:

Shiveman wrote:

Thanks for the post - I did a mile TT today. Felt great warming up and even did a few strides (the plan was to run around 7 minutes, so I wasn't going to bother). On the last one, I went full gas and was blown away with how fast the legs turned over. I instantly got excited and decided to run harder than originally planned. I got some video of the sprint that I will post on my channel. The TT wasn't ideal. It was on a horse trail with mud and rocks, on/off rain, cold and not completely flat. I started off at 6-minute pace and that felt moderate. The last-minute plan was to switch into race mode with 800 meters to go and be at full gas the last 200 meters. At around 800 meters my calf started to feel funny and by 1200 meters it hurt so I decided to stop. My NGP was 5:37 for around 1200 meters (El Gain 54 El Lost 79). I'm a bit bummed because I was ready to launch the last 800 meters. I don't think it's a serious injury as I was able to MTB right after with minimal pain. The interesting thing is that I hit a new HR max of 186 which is incredible because I absolutely destroy myself MTB racing. The TT didn't seem like I was going that hard and it was the same H10 I use on the bike.

I'm doing exactly that, running (mostly walking) in the morning and riding in the afternoon. The only major bike difference this year is that I'm reducing the number of base hours and using that time for gym work and running. Agree with eliminating the running timeline, especially since I'm already having an issue with my calf.

It's a small setback that could have/should have been prevented. I've literally only been on two runs longer than 5-minutes in continuous duration, everything else has been walking or a combination of running/walking. A few days off, then back at it...

I feel like we're being trolled here.

Fool me once...

socalcush wrote:

can you do it? absolutely. will you do it? probably not, but i'm only saying this from the perspective of if i were betting, not necessarily to discourage you.

my advice:

1) avoid most training advice you get here on letsrun. i'm not saying it's bad or uninformed, but for a goal this ambitious i think you'll need a more structured big-picture plan, not a hodgepodge of random quality workouts and drills.

2) find a training group and/or coach that can help you. again, this is a seriously ambitious goal; you'll need help, especially when those "why am i even bothering with this?" moments come, and they will.

my experience: running this fast requires a fairly extreme level of commitment, regardless of ability. if you fail, it likely won't be lack of ability, but lack of commitment because...well...you're 41 and probably should have other priorities (though there's nothing wrong with making this goal a priority depending on where you are at this stage in life), even though it sounds like your work-level may allow the requisite time and energy. so maybe you can balance this goal with other priorities. if you read up on the john trautmann article posted earlier, you'll see he came from a background of incredible talent, but also ability to commit fully to a goal. my own experiences with many of the best masters runners in the country is that this is the trait they share, not necessarily talent.

carpe crepusculum,

cush

socalcush wrote:

can you do it? absolutely. will you do it? probably not, but i'm only saying this from the perspective of if i were betting, not necessarily to discourage you.

my advice:

1) avoid most training advice you get here on letsrun. i'm not saying it's bad or uninformed, but for a goal this ambitious i think you'll need a more structured big-picture plan, not a hodgepodge of random quality workouts and drills.

2) find a training group and/or coach that can help you. again, this is a seriously ambitious goal; you'll need help, especially when those "why am i even bothering with this?" moments come, and they will.

my experience: running this fast requires a fairly extreme level of commitment, regardless of ability. if you fail, it likely won't be lack of ability, but lack of commitment because...well...you're 41 and probably should have other priorities (though there's nothing wrong with making this goal a priority depending on where you are at this stage in life), even though it sounds like your work-level may allow the requisite time and energy. so maybe you can balance this goal with other priorities. if you read up on the john trautmann article posted earlier, you'll see he came from a background of incredible talent, but also ability to commit fully to a goal. my own experiences with many of the best masters runners in the country is that this is the trait they share, not necessarily talent.

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Shiveman wrote:

socalcush wrote:

can you do it? absolutely. will you do it? probably not, but i'm only saying this from the perspective of if i were betting, not necessarily to discourage you.

my advice:

1) avoid most training advice you get here on letsrun. i'm not saying it's bad or uninformed, but for a goal this ambitious i think you'll need a more structured big-picture plan, not a hodgepodge of random quality workouts and drills.

2) find a training group and/or coach that can help you. again, this is a seriously ambitious goal; you'll need help, especially when those "why am i even bothering with this?" moments come, and they will.

my experience: running this fast requires a fairly extreme level of commitment, regardless of ability. if you fail, it likely won't be lack of ability, but lack of commitment because...well...you're 41 and probably should have other priorities (though there's nothing wrong with making this goal a priority depending on where you are at this stage in life), even though it sounds like your work-level may allow the requisite time and energy. so maybe you can balance this goal with other priorities. if you read up on the john trautmann article posted earlier, you'll see he came from a background of incredible talent, but also ability to commit fully to a goal. my own experiences with many of the best masters runners in the country is that this is the trait they share, not necessarily talent.

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Appreciate the feedback, my plan is to join a track club and then hire a coach if I’m able to progress a bit. Based off what I’m reading on this thread, 4:40ish would be a more realistic goal at my age. I will take a look at John’s article this evening.