The list of runners who didn't age group swim as kids who take up triathlon and turn into average or above average swimmers is almost zero.
McElroy's not the best swimmer now...but he's done well enough.
agreed. Matt was a surfer in HS but technique-wise, he was a completely a newb in the pool. Technically he was in Tokyo as an alternate. Not sure if any of us consider that making the Olympics but damn close. And Matt was 2nd in Leeds a couple years back, on the WTS circuit, which is tris top draft legal level.
Siri Lindley is the american story that needs to be told to fire up Quigly or any complete newb to swimming wanting to turn pro. Lindley had no background in swimming, cycling, or running! She was a team sports player in college (La cross I think). She wasn't even an endurance athlete!!
Lindley trained for years, getting her swimming down, and as an adult. She never made an Olympics, sure, but.... for a season, she dominated draft legal tris, winning multiple races at the highest level, and her running was lethal. It was her strength.
Almost every pro cyclist has had a few decent crashes. It goes with the territory. Very few professional cyclists get fifth at the olympics, or ride in the TDF, or have stage wins, or are top five in a classic. I would says Woods has definitely shown that at least one runner can learn to cycle pretty well.
Not every pro cyclist crashes into his own team mate and takes himself out of the race with yet another concussion like Mike Woods did at the Vuelta a Espana. Just look back at how often Mike Woods has a major crash compared to any other pro cyclist. It's like every few months you hear that Mike Woods has yet again crashed and abandoned a race, just Google it. I don't think Mike Woods even remembers any of his past races any more with the number of head injuries he has had.
Most pro cyclists on the world tour never have a win their ENTIRE career.
In fact, most don't do as well as Mike Woods, who is a beast on climbs. The dude knows how to hurt and is seriously gifted.
Just making a world tour team in cycling is very difficult.
Crashing has nothing to do with success on the world tour unless you die from your crash and can't come back.
See: Mike Woods' success
The best bike handlers in the world crash, mostly caused by others.
fyi: your link just says crash, not that he did it to himself.
The article says only Mike Woods and his teammate were in the crash. His other team mate doesn't have a history of frequent crashing that Mike Woods does and didn't abandon the Vuelta. Doesn't take an Einstein to see that it was yet again Mike Woods causing himself to crash, this time by running into his own teammate.
There are very, very few people who can become good enough swimmers if they weren't doing age group swimming as a kid. Guys like Pearson were swimmers before becoming runners and then triathletes.
Maybe it is just chance that the odds of someone being a good swimmer is low (especially if you have the body of a distance guy) but it might also be a skill that is hard to learn as an adult. You see that in a lot of skill sports where the difference between the kids who played as kids and who picked it up at 30 is pretty noticeable...
She doesn't have the body of a distance guy. She doesn't have the body of a pro swimmer either, but neither does Gwen Jorgensen. This is triathlon, not pure swimming. The freestyle/crawl is the easiest skill to learn when it comes to swimming.
Sorry, you are completely wrong about swimming and Gwen. Of the three sports, swimming is the sport that requires the most skill. if you don't start swimming competitively as a child, there is simply no way you will ever be a top swimmer as an adult. Gwen was swimming competitively at 8 years old. She then swam competitively in college with a dream of going to the Olympics as a swimmer. Which is exactly what USA Triathlon was looking for when they recruited her (for a shot at the Olympics in triathlon) - someone who was a competitive swimmer who also ran. They can develop the running and bike skills later in life, but not swimming. Did USA Triathlon know what they were doing when they looked for someone who's primary strength was swimming competitively? A whole lot of ITU wins, including the gold medal in 2014 and 2015 and an Olympic gold medal in 2016 says yes. Yes they were 100% correct. You need to be a really good swimmer.
Most pro cyclists on the world tour never have a win their ENTIRE career.
In fact, most don't do as well as Mike Woods, who is a beast on climbs. The dude knows how to hurt and is seriously gifted.
Just making a world tour team in cycling is very difficult.
Crashing has nothing to do with success on the world tour unless you die from your crash and can't come back.
See: Mike Woods' success
The best bike handlers in the world crash, mostly caused by others.
fyi: your link just says crash, not that he did it to himself.
The article says only Mike Woods and his teammate were in the crash. His other team mate doesn't have a history of frequent crashing that Mike Woods does and didn't abandon the Vuelta. Doesn't take an Einstein to see that it was yet again Mike Woods causing himself to crash, this time by running into his own teammate.
Right, you admit now that you don't know who caused it. It's moot anyway because you don't have a valid point to begin with.
If Woods was abnormally different than what is expected for the sport, he wound not get contracts with world tour teams. Being a former runner has zero to do with being crash prone on the world tour.
She doesn't have the body of a distance guy. She doesn't have the body of a pro swimmer either, but neither does Gwen Jorgensen. This is triathlon, not pure swimming. The freestyle/crawl is the easiest skill to learn when it comes to swimming.
Sorry, you are completely wrong about swimming and Gwen. Of the three sports, swimming is the sport that requires the most skill. if you don't start swimming competitively as a child, there is simply no way you will ever be a top swimmer as an adult. Gwen was swimming competitively at 8 years old. She then swam competitively in college with a dream of going to the Olympics as a swimmer. Which is exactly what USA Triathlon was looking for when they recruited her (for a shot at the Olympics in triathlon) - someone who was a competitive swimmer who also ran. They can develop the running and bike skills later in life, but not swimming. Did USA Triathlon know what they were doing when they looked for someone who's primary strength was swimming competitively? A whole lot of ITU wins, including the gold medal in 2014 and 2015 and an Olympic gold medal in 2016 says yes. Yes they were 100% correct. You need to be a really good swimmer.
Siri Lindley is an american example and exception. No endurance sports background (including swimming). Complete newb in the pool who went from zero to dominating the ITU draft legal circuit for a season. Took her years though.
Lindley is the exception to the rule but that was over 20 years ago and women's ITU has increased in quality exponentially since then. Gone are the days where someone can not make the lead group to start the bike and then run only 34/35 on the run and medal. Look at how slow the run times were in her WC:
Perhaps. But in the 2001 World Championship race, you also have Carol Montgomery who had made the Canadian track team in the 10,000 at the 2000 Olympics (as well as their triathlon team). If she's only running a 34:52 run split, perhaps the course was not as simple as you seem to think it was...
Lindley is the exception to the rule but that was over 20 years ago and women's ITU has increased in quality exponentially since then. Gone are the days where someone can not make the lead group to start the bike and then run only 34/35 on the run and medal. Look at how slow the run times were in her WC:
I think it's fair to say that Lindley would not be a world champion today.
Actually, Carol Montgomery ran two seconds faster in than Lindley in that race (34:52). She had an off day on her swim in that race and it put her back where she couldn't catch the lead bike pack.
I think it's fair to say that Lindley would not be a world champion today.
Do you realize that we have a lot better PEDs today than back in 2001? Not to mention the super shoes and aerobikes of today. To say Lindley could not be world champion today is like saying Lance Armstrong wouldn't win the Tour de France today because he didn't have all the PEDs and technology we have now.
I think it's fair to say that Lindley would not be a world champion today.
Do you realize that we have a lot better PEDs today than back in 2001? Not to mention the super shoes and aerobikes of today. To say Lindley could not be world champion today is like saying Lance Armstrong wouldn't win the Tour de France today because he didn't have all the PEDs and technology we have now.
Not to dispute your statement, but back then there was almost zero drug testing in triathlon and I know there were quite a few male pros who most definitely were doping.
The list of runners who didn't age group swim as kids who take up triathlon and turn into average or above average swimmers is almost zero.
McElroy's not the best swimmer now...but he's done well enough.
He also grew up surfing and working as a lifeguard. Does CQ also have that type of swim background?
Again I wish her luck and would love to see her due well. But everyone has a couple friends who have tried the triathlon after running. Most do very well on the bike and run. Most also give away huge chunks of time in the swim. Maybe it is poor training . But man the list of people who haven't made the jump is huge.
I meant to write that only one woman in the top 10 broke 35. Yes, CM was amazing in her day but she also was competing in a much weaker world. Her lifetime best was 32:11 in the 10K (her best event). She wouldn't even come close to qualifying for the Olympics today and there are multiple women now who can run faster than her today. I wouldn't put too much stock in a 10K time of a run specialist who blew up on the course. Look at Beaugrand in Abu Dhabi. She ran 34:15 and I am fairly sure would beat every woman in that race on the track in a 10K. Getting your legs shredded on the bike for 40K takes its total (even on the best runners)!
It's relative to her era (Lindley) so no comparison. She was a world champ already with no swimming background so Lindley wins the point, within this thread: someone with no swimming background can be the best at draft legal triathlon.
Perhaps. But in the 2001 World Championship race, you also have Carol Montgomery who had made the Canadian track team in the 10,000 at the 2000 Olympics (as well as their triathlon team). If she's only running a 34:52 run split, perhaps the course was not as simple as you seem to think it was...
Yeah, effing Carol Montgomery. Always was a fan. She was a stellar non-draft triathlon racer who was a strong cyclist. A freak athlete. The irony was, when draft legal started, her running prowess seemed to lessen and by the time Sydney rolled around, the game was figured out for draft legal racing. Off a really hard bike (non-drafting) she destroyed fields though, running most, if not everyone down.
She ran an Olympic 10,000 and Olympic triathlon at the SAME games. Effing insane to pull that double now.
She's a Canadian (and I have only focused on yanks here). Does anyone here know Montgomery's swim background (if any) before she started tris? She may be a another with zero background in the pool. There must be many examples internationally.
So we are looking at like 3 people in the past 30 years.😁 Not great odds. I will not ask how many started at like 32...
We hear about people picking up running and doing well (OT level qualifiers). Not sure you ever hear about that in swimming/biking but those are different sports in terms of opportunity...
So we are looking at like 3 people in the past 30 years.😁 Not great odds. I will not ask how many started at like 32...
We hear about people picking up running and doing well (OT level qualifiers). Not sure you ever hear about that in swimming/biking but those are different sports in terms of opportunity...
Yeah, exactly. It's a very small sample size for americans. Internationals too, I'll bet. It would take some sleuthing to find all draft legal triathletes at the WTS level (past and present) with zero swimming background (like Lindley), who have had been relevant, but it would be very small indeed.
Even smaller for a triathlete to podium at the WTS level race.
Even smaller for a triathlete to win a WTS level race.
And even smaller for triathlete to stay on top for an entire season like Lindley did with multiple wins.
It is just very hard to do, have zero swimming background and draft legal success.
So we are looking at like 3 people in the past 30 years.😁 Not great odds. I will not ask how many started at like 32...
We hear about people picking up running and doing well (OT level qualifiers). Not sure you ever hear about that in swimming/biking but those are different sports in terms of opportunity...
Yeah, exactly. It's a very small sample size for americans. Internationals too, I'll bet. It would take some sleuthing to find all draft legal triathletes at the WTS level (past and present) with zero swimming background (like Lindley), who have had been relevant, but it would be very small indeed.
Even smaller for a triathlete to podium at the WTS level race.
Even smaller for a triathlete to win a WTS level race.
And even smaller for triathlete to stay on top for an entire season like Lindley did with multiple wins.
It is just very hard to do, have zero swimming background and draft legal success.
It was very hard 20 years ago when the sport was in its infant stages but it is impossible now. Nobody now is picking up swimming as an adult and medaling at the Olympics.
It was very hard 20 years ago when the sport was in its infant stages but it is impossible now. Nobody now is picking up swimming as an adult and medaling at the Olympics.
I would be curious to know the technical reason why. We all assume it is an efficiency issue but what are the adult learners doing that is so different. I have to imagine guys like Sanders have put in enough hours but maybe they are training in efficiently.i have a feeling a lot of people end up going down bad paths and jump around from one guru to another...
Yeah, exactly. It's a very small sample size for americans. Internationals too, I'll bet. It would take some sleuthing to find all draft legal triathletes at the WTS level (past and present) with zero swimming background (like Lindley), who have had been relevant, but it would be very small indeed.
Even smaller for a triathlete to podium at the WTS level race.
Even smaller for a triathlete to win a WTS level race.
And even smaller for triathlete to stay on top for an entire season like Lindley did with multiple wins.
It is just very hard to do, have zero swimming background and draft legal success.
It was very hard 20 years ago when the sport was in its infant stages but it is impossible now. Nobody now is picking up swimming as an adult and medaling at the Olympics.
We had super suit swimming world records left from 08 - 09' that are almost al but gone now, beaten by "textile" suits (slower suits). Training methods beating tech.
Running is the opposite. Super show tech is breaking records now.
A case could be made that someone from 20 years ago could beat people now, either from tech, training, or both
"Nobody now is picking up swimming as an adult and medaling at the Olympics."
Not sure if that's true. Would be a fun example to find! I'll have a think. Simon Whitfield jumps to mind. He was a runner first and won in Sydney. I don't know the extent of his swimming background though. There are people with non-swimming backgrounds at the WTS level today but medaling at the Olympics, highly doubtful.
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