Also, OP, Trump never incited violence, you just don't know what incitement means. There was already an impeachment trial where they found no evidence of incitement.
Senate voted 57–43 to convict Trump of inciting insurrection.
Looks like plenty of evidence of incitement. Certainly not "no evidence of incitement".
The guilty votes were bipartisan. The not guilty votes were 100% Republican.
Trump has been reinstated on Twitter by Musk, but Kanye was just kicked off simply for words that lead to no actions (like breaking into the Capitol by a mob of thugs).
Yes.
The Senate is in no way corrupt.
Indict Bush for lying us into war? Nah.
How about Obama? Course not.
But protesting the results of an election in 2020? Hang Trump.
John Henrik Clarke was an African-American historian, professor, and pioneer in the creation of Pan-African and Africana studies and professional institution...
I do recall that. I disagree with your comment that "everybody loved him." Mike Myers, who he was standing next to, did not love his performance. Many people didn't.
But no, West was not off the rails then. He was way out of line (as Myers obviously believed), and completely wrong about George Bush, but not off the rails. "Off the rails" is when you say publicly "I like Hitler," and "I see good things about Hitler" and "We’ve got to stop dissing the Nazis all the time” and "I see good things about Hitler also." Stuff like that. That's off the rails.
Defending, excusing, or whataboutyouing that kind of stuff can veer toward going off the rails, as well. Drive carefully.
Bush cares about black people?
The Nazis ended nearly 80 years ago.
The apartheid state continues.
Focus
Yes, George Bush cares about black people.
The Nazis may have ended 80 years ago, but West said "I see good things about Hitler" two days ago and the title of this thread is "Kanye West suspended from Twitter."
The Nazis may have ended 80 years ago, but West said "I see good things about Hitler" two days ago and the title of this thread is "Kanye West suspended from Twitter."
Focus
Bush admin did nada for black people.
Nor did Obama. Or Trump. Or Biden.
This narrative about the Nazis being the worst regime ever and that Jews were there only victims is nonsense and speaks to Jewish Power, not to any historical reality.
People praise slave holders and mass killers, etc. all the time.
No, you're the wrong and naive one. This is NOT a call to violence. How can you conclude that? Other than your first sentence of that paragraph, I completely agree with every sentence that followed in that paragraph. Hitler was the embodiment of human excrement.
That said, every single person has at least a little good (and sometimes a lot) and at least a little bad (and sometimes a lot). Your denial of this truth makes you the naive one and utterly destroys your credibility. Your effort to label, besmirch, and cancel anyone who might say a thing that you can't tolerate shows a lack of compunction on your part.
You don't win people over by plugging your ears, yelling "NAH NAH NAH", acting like God's gift to morality while also yearning to off everyone who may disagree with you. That actually sounds a lot like how Hitler would approach things to me.
Again, I agree wholeheartedly 100% that Hitler was a terrible person. That's obvious. He is essentially the human face of evil. At the same time, Kanye and others can say whatever they want. People say stupid wrong things ALL THE TIME. You simply want to hate instead of educate, and in my opinion, are marginally different than those you despise.
People who say that Hitler did some good things may not be "minimizing unprecedented evil". They could possibly and rightfully be pointing out that evil (the worst evil) often does not initially look so bad. It can even look good, and a lot of sheep will follow. It might look a lot like people who virtue signal so much. Again, like what you're doing here.
"Every single person has a little good in them." Aww, thanks Cindy Lou Who, that's so heart warming.
Unfortunately, Kanye's point was not "every person has a little good in them," he straight up said "I like Hitler" while slandering jews as pedophiles and pornographers. He has been routinely making anti-Semitic comments for months. (But he loves them, too. Ya, sure.)
It is clearly not obvious to everyone that Hitler was a terrible person. Douglas Burke was just extolling the potential benefits of Hitler's leadership style over what he perceives to be modern day liberalism. As if the whole "exterminate the undesirables" thing was just an unfortunate misstep.
If you say "I like Hitler," despite knowing everything he did, then you cannot be reasoned with or educated. I'm not putting my fingers in my ears yelling "nananana"; that's you, ignoring the growing white nationalist/anti-semitic rhetoric on the right. You can fight it or seek to appease it, but there is no "educating" it.
Stridently opposing Nazism is "virtue-signaling" now? My grandfather, who lost a leg fighting that evil, wouldn't have agreed with you.
I'm with you on opposing Nazism, and I appreciate your Grandfather and his service.
I also do not look to Ye as a moral or thought leader (and in general, it annoys me when just about any musician, athlete, or thespian uses their platform to discuss political issues).
I disagree, however, with your assertion that "acknowledging that 'Hitler did some good things,' then you are minimizing the unprecedented evil they brought upon the world. You are either a Nazi playing coy or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed." As Burke (who by the way, I agree with like 2% of the time) noted, Hitler did not rise to power while having two horns on his head and spiked tail. He did things that people perceived to be good, that most people would call "good". Given our political climate today, where people seem to want to follow their group and call the other evil no matter what, it is worthwhile to recognize that great evil when it is developing may not look so bad to a majority of people. I think that is where Burke was going with it.
According to most accounts, Hitler was a great dog owner. I like dogs as well, and I can appreciate good dog ownership (even if the owner is atrocious in other ways). I don't think acknowledging reality re: Hitler means, as you suggested, that I am "a Nazi playing coy, or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed."
Ironically, I probably agree with you on just about everything WAY more than I do Burke, so... cheers and have a great weekend.
The Nazis may have ended 80 years ago, but West said "I see good things about Hitler" two days ago and the title of this thread is "Kanye West suspended from Twitter."
Focus
This narrative about the Nazis being the worst regime ever and that Jews were there only victims is nonsense and speaks to Jewish Power, not to any historical reality.
People praise slave holders and mass killers, etc. all the time.
But Hitler and Nazis? Forbidden
What praise would you like to give Hitler and the Nazis? Same praise as as West? More?
The Nazis may have ended 80 years ago, but West said "I see good things about Hitler" two days ago and the title of this thread is "Kanye West suspended from Twitter."
Focus
Bush admin did nada for black people.
Nor did Obama. Or Trump. Or Biden.
This narrative about the Nazis being the worst regime ever and that Jews were there only victims is nonsense and speaks to Jewish Power, not to any historical reality.
People praise slave holders and mass killers, etc. all the time.
I do recall that. I disagree with your comment that "everybody loved him." Mike Myers, who he was standing next to, did not love his performance. Many people didn't.
But no, West was not off the rails then. He was way out of line (as Myers obviously believed), and completely wrong about George Bush, but not off the rails. "Off the rails" is when you say publicly "I like Hitler," and "I see good things about Hitler" and "We’ve got to stop dissing the Nazis all the time” and "I see good things about Hitler also." Stuff like that. That's off the rails.
Defending, excusing, or whataboutyouing that kind of stuff can veer toward going off the rails, as well. Drive carefully.
I appreciate the warning. Who cares what Kanye West does or does not like? His contributions have been mostly through his music. If you don't like him, fine. But, here are a couple of relevant parallels: both Voltaire and Louis Ferdinand Céline were rabid anti-semites. Céline actually spent time in prison for his views. Do we have to filter our opinion of "Candide" and "Journey to the Edge of the Night" through those views? Is "The College Dropout" or "808's and Heartbreak" or "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" or "Yeezus" less of an album because we disagree with the views of the artist who created it?
More broadly, there is a phenomenon going on here that I am going to try to name: we live in an era where it is widely believed that [Insert flawed belief system] is systemic in nature. Those flawed beliefs used to be considered flaws of character. It's gone from Archie Bunker to a white guy explaining Jay-Z. Conscious choice or not, there are consequences for this cultural shift.
Statement in Turkish via BDS Turkiye: On the occasion of the passing of legendary athlete and struggler for justice, Muhammad Ali, Samidoun Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network joins millions a…
I do recall that. I disagree with your comment that "everybody loved him." Mike Myers, who he was standing next to, did not love his performance. Many people didn't.
But no, West was not off the rails then. He was way out of line (as Myers obviously believed), and completely wrong about George Bush, but not off the rails. "Off the rails" is when you say publicly "I like Hitler," and "I see good things about Hitler" and "We’ve got to stop dissing the Nazis all the time” and "I see good things about Hitler also." Stuff like that. That's off the rails.
Defending, excusing, or whataboutyouing that kind of stuff can veer toward going off the rails, as well. Drive carefully.
I appreciate the warning. Who cares what Kanye West does or does not like?
A lot of people at the moment care that West likes Hitler and Nazis, because one of the two major parties in America, including its party leader, have been publicly affirming and extolling West for months. West had a very public dinner with a VERY public-minded former president a few days ago. Then West went on a popular political talk-show yesterday and affirmed his affection for Hitler. These kind of political things get noticed and discussed widely.
His contributions have been mostly through his music. If you don't like him, fine. But, here are a couple of relevant parallels: both Voltaire and Louis Ferdinand Céline were rabid anti-semites. Céline actually spent time in prison for his views. Do we have to filter our opinion of "Candide" and "Journey to the Edge of the Night" through those views? Is "The College Dropout" or "808's and Heartbreak" or "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" or "Yeezus" less of an album because we disagree with the views of the artist who created it?
No, the music remains the music. But knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd ever pay money for West's music again. Anyway, that has never been the point of recent discussion of West, including this thread. The point is that West likes Hitler and Nazis, some people think that is really disgusting, while some (e.g., the Carmine guy) seem to think maybe society hasn't been very nice or fair to Nazis. And still others, like yourself, are kind of on the fence, but seem to want to deflect away from West's warm feelings for Nazis with talk of his music or comments from 2003.
Sam Brinton was charged with felony theft after allegedly snatching a Vera Bradley suitcase reportedly worth $2,325 from baggage claim at the Minneapolis St. Paul Airport.
A lot of people at the moment care that West likes Hitler and Nazis, because one of the two major parties in America, including its party leader, have been publicly affirming and extolling West for months. West had a very public dinner with a VERY public-minded former president a few days ago. Then West went on a popular political talk-show yesterday and affirmed his affection for Hitler. These kind of political things get noticed and discussed widely.
No, the music remains the music. But knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd ever pay money for West's music again. Anyway, that has never been the point of recent discussion of West, including this thread. The point is that West likes Hitler and Nazis, some people think that is really disgusting, while some (e.g., the Carmine guy) seem to think maybe society hasn't been very nice or fair to Nazis. And still others, like yourself, are kind of on the fence, but seem to want to deflect away from West's warm feelings for Nazis with talk of his music or comments from 2003.
I see a lot of false dichotomy in what you wrote. And you have treated my central thesis: that artists are human and, as such, have flaws, in a way that I find to be extremely slippery.
Still, I don't doubt your convictions. I mean this in the nicest way possible: I don't really care about them, either.
West a fan of nazis? Remember when he penned the line "I hate these [not gonna say it] more than nazis?" from his song "Flashing Lights?" Remember when he tweeted "Bill Cosby is innocent !!!!!!!!!!" without any prompting? To my knowledge, he has recorded exactly one line using the word "Jew" in his entire catalog, and he used it to be critical of the black community ("Black on black lies is worse than black on black crime./The Jews share their truth on how to make a dime.") Is that anti-semetic? Arguably, yes. But if you have to make an argument for it, the answer could just as plausibly be "no."
Mostly, I'm bummed that you didn't respond to the second part of my post...because I think there's far more substance there for an engaging and productive discussion. Maybe I'm way off. Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last.
A lot of people at the moment care that West likes Hitler and Nazis, because one of the two major parties in America, including its party leader, have been publicly affirming and extolling West for months. West had a very public dinner with a VERY public-minded former president a few days ago. Then West went on a popular political talk-show yesterday and affirmed his affection for Hitler. These kind of political things get noticed and discussed widely.
No, the music remains the music. But knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd ever pay money for West's music again. Anyway, that has never been the point of recent discussion of West, including this thread. The point is that West likes Hitler and Nazis, some people think that is really disgusting, while some (e.g., the Carmine guy) seem to think maybe society hasn't been very nice or fair to Nazis. And still others, like yourself, are kind of on the fence, but seem to want to deflect away from West's warm feelings for Nazis with talk of his music or comments from 2003.
I see a lot of false dichotomy in what you wrote.
If you let me know what the false dichotomy was, I can respond.
And you have treated my central thesis: that artists are human and, as such, have flaws, in a way that I find to be extremely slippery.
I wasn't aware that was your central thesis. I agree artists are human and have flaws. Not sure what that really has to do with this particular thread, other than West is an artist with flaws . . . .
West a fan of nazis? Remember when he penned the line "I hate these [not gonna say it] more than nazis?" from his song "Flashing Lights?" Remember when he tweeted "Bill Cosby is innocent !!!!!!!!!!" without any prompting? To my knowledge, he has recorded exactly one line using the word "Jew" in his entire catalog, and he used it to be critical of the black community ("Black on black lies is worse than black on black crime./The Jews share their truth on how to make a dime.") Is that anti-semetic? Arguably, yes. But if you have to make an argument for it, the answer could just as plausibly be "no."
Yes, West likes Hitler and Nazis. He specifically said so multiple times, just yesterday. Here is a quote from him: "I like Hitler."
Mostly, I'm bummed that you didn't respond to the second part of my post...because I think there's far more substance there for an engaging and productive discussion. Maybe I'm way off. Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last.
I didn't understand the second part of your post. I'm not sure what you are getting at. Is it that there are no more Archie Bunker types to point fingers at, so now people just say racism is "systemic" as if that had some deep, permanent meaning? I can see that to some extent.
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