Valby lost b/c she was horrible with the tangents

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#81

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2 years ago 11/20/2022 1:45am EST

fitz wrote:
How has it not been said yet, is it because we live in a PC feminized culture??? Blonde, Female. Anything is possible with that combination, no matter how absurd.
Valby is one heck of a talent but being 20 years old and not even understanding the concept of a tangent is kind of scary. I'd expect anyone that age by their 2nd race of their life to understand that concept but then again, I'm not blonde or female. Running fast doesn't require you to be smart though so eventually she'll figure that out.

Don't hate me, I smirked and giggled when she said she doesn't know what tangent is hahahahah, but like if she doesnt know, she could just watch the replay and watch katelyn tuohy and she'll know what a tangent is

2 years ago 11/20/2022 1:49am EST

re: XY

XY wrote:
To me, Valby races like a middle-schooler who does things more by impulse than strategy. The poor girl has trouble finding lane one on the track for crying out loud. Before anyone jumps down my neck, my gut feeling is that her upside is absolutely massive...like once she starts figuring some things out, poor-Katelyn-will-be-left-in-the-dust-level-talent here.
As an analogy, up until recently, the world's most famous rock climber was Chris Sharma. When he was only 16 in the 1990s, he climbed the hardest rock climb in America. I saw him climb in a comp back then, and couldn't believe how poor he was at finding the route or using his feet. The thing was, he was so much stronger than everyone else, it didn't matter, he still beat them. It occurred to me then that if/when he improved his technical game, he would be not just the world's best, but utterly dominant. Flash forward 10 years, and that was the case.
Valby could be the Chris Sharma for U.S. women's running. The caveat is I'm not sure that Solinsky is fully up to the task of managing such a talent in the long term. I will give him credit for keeping her healthy and happy though, which is 90+% of the game.

I sometimes watched Sharma climb outdoors in the '90s. He'd sometimes boulder in Tevas, which I took to mean that he could be casual about those particular boulders more than having bad technique.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 1:58am EST

re: Bubbadeeboos

Why are people trying to relate Valby's strange racing lines with a lack of aptitude in geometry or trig?

You don't need formal schooling in trig to understand that, for example, it's faster to cut through a lawn than go around the corner on the sidewalk. Heck, there's probably somewhere on her college campus where she cuts through a lawn multiple times a week.

Even when we're talking about a wide curved path, it's instinctive for anyone capable of ambulating that a straighter line is more efficient than one that matches the curve down the middle.

The issue is obviously that when she runs, she's doing it entirely with the autonomous parts of her brain. The same parts that allow us to walk or drive down the same path every day and not remember most of it, because it's been solidified as memorized routine and it doesn't require conscious analysis. Valby is buried in her stride and not actually consciously choosing a path, ideal or otherwise.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 2:00am EST

re: Non-Spatial

Non-Spatial wrote:
I agree and believe that Touhy had Valby dialed in, but you never know where someone's breaking point is. Needless to say, running a "shorter" course is preferable.
That said, I wouldn't exactly put this on the coach. Oftentimes, a runner's greatest strength has a notable weakness on the "other side of the knife". Undoubtedly, Valby can just go, fearlessly, with a huge amount of moxie. On the flip side, she may not be as strong on the particulars (like race strategy, running tangents, etc). All that is just extra stuff that may involve too much thinking from her point of view (Obviously, I am not saying she isn't smart.). We all have seen runners who should think less and just run. That's Valby to the max. She should improve on this aspect, and I think she will, and I am sure her coach is working on it, but she (and the coach) must keep her main strength (which may be at odds with this).

Well put. Parker Valby is a special athlete. In her post race interview she just exuded a love for the sport and she seemed so authentic. She probably is more interested in effort than tangents and if that is the case she may end up a champion. She may be formidable on the track where her talent and effort, more than tangents, will matter.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 2:12am EST

re: Keere

Keere wrote:
Well put. Parker Valby is a special athlete. In her post race interview she just exuded a love for the sport and she seemed so authentic. She probably is more interested in effort than tangents and if that is the case she may end up a champion. She may be formidable on the track where her talent and effort, more than tangents, will matter.

Yes and no to the bolded part. She may be able to just front-run a lot of her college races, and win. (Refer to the race strategy and career of of 1500m runner Christin-Wurth Thomas.) But that is going to get her only so far. She is eventually (even racing Tuohy) going to need the ability to quickly change gears, to speed up at an instant, to get around and behind or in front of athletes, then slow down, and get comfortable running on the rail with multiple athletes all around her.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 2:17am EST

re: Keere

Coach should have her do one of her long interval workouts in lane 4 and let the clock show her how much slower it is to not run the tangents.

That said, she hit 3,000m at 9:30 and positive split the next 3000 in 10:00-ish. After the first 500m, she should have dialed it back to just maintain her position if she is determined to front run.

#88

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#89

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2 years ago 11/20/2022 2:56am EST

re: Bubbadeeboos

valby didnt lose because she didnt know what a tangent is, she lost because katelyn tuohy is stronger and better (at tangents and racing in general)

valby's legs were giving up on that last turn.. while katelyn charged front strong

anyways i thought yall said shes gonna beat katelyn by 30 seconds, why yall giving an alibi now

2 years ago 11/20/2022 3:03am EST

re: semihaze

semihaze wrote:
valby didnt lose because she didnt know what a tangent is, she lost because katelyn tuohy is stronger and better (at tangents and racing in general)
valby's legs were giving up on that last turn.. while katelyn charged front strong
anyways i thought yall said shes gonna beat katelyn by 30 seconds, why yall giving an alibi now

The two of them are fairly evenly matched. Katelyn won today and good for her. That is all we can say for sure. If they raced 20 times maybe Katelyn wins 11 or 12. These two are closely matched.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 3:22am EST

re: colder and wiser

colder and wiser wrote:
If you watch an average HS cross country meet or any medium-size or bigger road race, you'll see plenty of people are just a bad at running the tangents. I've even seen runners get confused about where to turn on the same race course that they had won the previous year.

The coach should say look up, far beyond the cart and spot the apex of the next turn, then run in a straight line towards that point.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 4:13am EST

re: semihaze

semihaze wrote:
Don't hate me, I smirked and giggled when she said she doesn't know what tangent is hahahahah

That's not what Valby said, so you can stop your immature smirking and giggling, because your comprehensive of what Valby said isn't very good.

Valby said she understands the concept of a tangent but she can't figure exactly how to do it while she's running. Which is why her coach should have done a better job of working with her on that.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 4:24am EST

re: Bubbadeeboos

running is exciting again at this level, and yes, she is super focus, she didn't run the best route for sure, it's like running in lane 2 the whole way, two more years of this possibly??? can't wait!

2 years ago 11/20/2022 4:32am EST

re: semihaze

semihaze wrote:
fitz wrote:
How has it not been said yet, is it because we live in a PC feminized culture??? Blonde, Female. Anything is possible with that combination, no matter how absurd.
Valby is one heck of a talent but being 20 years old and not even understanding the concept of a tangent is kind of scary. I'd expect anyone that age by their 2nd race of their life to understand that concept but then again, I'm not blonde or female. Running fast doesn't require you to be smart though so eventually she'll figure that out.
Don't hate me, I smirked and giggled when she said she doesn't know what tangent is hahahahah, but like if she doesnt know, she could just watch the replay and watch katelyn tuohy and she'll know what a tangent is

Smirked and giggled?? Are you 12? Dude semi grow up

2 years ago 11/20/2022 4:35am EST

re: semihaze

semihaze wrote:
fitz wrote:
How has it not been said yet, is it because we live in a PC feminized culture??? Blonde, Female. Anything is possible with that combination, no matter how absurd.
Valby is one heck of a talent but being 20 years old and not even understanding the concept of a tangent is kind of scary. I'd expect anyone that age by their 2nd race of their life to understand that concept but then again, I'm not blonde or female. Running fast doesn't require you to be smart though so eventually she'll figure that out.
Don't hate me, I smirked and giggled when she said she doesn't know what tangent is hahahahah, but like if she doesnt know, she could just watch the replay and watch katelyn tuohy and she'll know what a tangent is

Semi I thought you were banned??? Ugh I wish it was true - these last few days without you felt amazing

2 years ago 11/20/2022 4:51am EST

re: semihaze

semihaze wrote:
fitz wrote:
How has it not been said yet, is it because we live in a PC feminized culture??? Blonde, Female. Anything is possible with that combination, no matter how absurd.
Valby is one heck of a talent but being 20 years old and not even understanding the concept of a tangent is kind of scary. I'd expect anyone that age by their 2nd race of their life to understand that concept but then again, I'm not blonde or female. Running fast doesn't require you to be smart though so eventually she'll figure that out.
Don't hate me, I smirked and giggled when she said she doesn't know what tangent is hahahahah, but like if she doesnt know, she could just watch the replay and watch katelyn tuohy and she'll know what a tangent is

People don't hate you. We just wish you would not lie because you lose any credibility you might have left.
Besides, people feel sorry for you, living your life vicariously through Ms. Tuohy, with your instagram page, dedicated website, YouTube channel and obsessive Letsrun posting.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 4:53am EST

re: Rasnip

Rasnip wrote:
Why are people trying to relate Valby's strange racing lines with a lack of aptitude in geometry or trig?
You don't need formal schooling in trig to understand that, for example, it's faster to cut through a lawn than go around the corner on the sidewalk. Heck, there's probably somewhere on her college campus where she cuts through a lawn multiple times a week.
Even when we're talking about a wide curved path, it's instinctive for anyone capable of ambulating that a straighter line is more efficient than one that matches the curve down the middle.

Totally agree.

i remember before one of my first college xc races our team captain telling us to run the tangents and that the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, and how I laughed inside to myself, like, wtf, who doesn’t know that.

as to this race, well it seems like Valby, who is a prodigious talent, runs like Nur, just following the cart wherever it goes.

KT on the other hand is totally switched on, running tangents and stalking Valby perfectly. Bridging the gap just at the right time and then making a strong move to go by, exerting her dominance, making it that much harder for Valby to respond.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 5:09am EST

re: Bubbadeeboos

Bubbadeeboos wrote:
She often seemed “lost” and picked inefficient lines. Touhy seemed textbook and she ran her down

Nope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Would have lost anyway! Good try to make yourself feel better though.

2 years ago 11/20/2022 6:16am EST

re: Non-Spatial

Non-Spatial wrote:
Actually, in a post-race interview, she said he coach has tried to help her, but that when she's in a race, she just doesn't know what they are (not the definition or idea, but what the actual tangent in front of her is), so she follows the cart. I think she has a lack of spatial-awareness (the opposite of like how some baskatball players just always know where they are on the court without looking around). On a regular run, I bet Valby frequently bumps into or unintentionally cuts-off whoever is next to her. I think she's great, but some runners just don't have this type of course-awareness. She did give away a bit of time today.

I ran professionally (not at a high level!) and one of my training partners was like this. Even on a track he would drift. It isn’t something that can be taught.

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Valby lost b/c she was horrible with the tangents

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