Triamcinolone acetonide was legal until January? That explains 10 of the busts.
"triamcinolone acetonide, which was still allowed in some forms last year before being banned in January."
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
You haven't answered what does any of this have to do with "El Elefantino's" "theory", and the facts I provided?
It's like you want to participate in discussions, but don't really know what else to say.
Your posts aren't discussions. No one participates in them except you.
And you. You both need to be permanently escorted out of the forum. How many threads will you ruin before that’s done?
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#83
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I don't and never do agree with anything you say. Proof again that your dialogue is only with yourself.
Hey jacksprat -- what age would you guage is the intellectual level of the above response? I put it in the same age group as shouting with your fingers in your ear "La la la - I can't hear you!" or "I know you are but what am I!", or more simply "Nuh-uh!"
Back to headstrong:
But you did agree with "El Elefantino" who said many Kenyans will cheat, but it is not organized, after you initially labled a "theory" and requested facts.
When you were shown supporting statements from "WADA experts", you followed up by just rearranging the words, effectively saying just because it is not organized doesn't mean many Kenyans aren't cheating.
Duh. Thank you Mr. Wizard.
You keep repeating yourself as though that will make you right. It doesn't. My main point in responding to Elephantwhoever, apart from asking for some facts to support his views about Kenyan doping, was to point at that the WADA comments you rely on were over 3 years old and Kenyan doping appears worse now than it was then, and such doping can be as widespread as a cultural norm - which it appears to be - without it being state sponsored (and it likely is).
It is inherent in your solipsism that you think a point of view - on anything - can only be meaningful if it is expressed the way you express yourself. God forbid.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Hey jacksprat -- what age would you guage is the intellectual level of the above response? I put it in the same age group as shouting with your fingers in your ear "La la la - I can't hear you!" or "I know you are but what am I!", or more simply "Nuh-uh!"
Back to headstrong:
But you did agree with "El Elefantino" who said many Kenyans will cheat, but it is not organized, after you initially labled a "theory" and requested facts.
When you were shown supporting statements from "WADA experts", you followed up by just rearranging the words, effectively saying just because it is not organized doesn't mean many Kenyans aren't cheating.
Duh. Thank you Mr. Wizard.
You keep repeating yourself as though that will make you right. It doesn't. My main point in responding to Elephantwhoever, apart from asking for some facts to support his views about Kenyan doping, was to point at that the WADA comments you rely on were over 3 years old and Kenyan doping appears worse now than it was then, and such doping can be as widespread as a cultural norm - which it appears to be - without it being state sponsored (and it likely is).
It is inherent in your solipsism that you think a point of view - on anything - can only be meaningful if it is expressed the way you express yourself. God forbid.
What makes me right is your failure to identify anything wrong.
A point of view is meaningful when it adds something full of meaning. If you just rearrange the words to say the same thing, what is the meaning?
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Typical ending wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Your posts aren't discussions. No one participates in them except you.
And you. You both need to be permanently escorted out of the forum. How many threads will you ruin before that’s done?
+1
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#87
This post was removed.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You keep repeating yourself as though that will make you right. It doesn't. My main point in responding to Elephantwhoever, apart from asking for some facts to support his views about Kenyan doping, was to point at that the WADA comments you rely on were over 3 years old and Kenyan doping appears worse now than it was then, and such doping can be as widespread as a cultural norm - which it appears to be - without it being state sponsored (and it likely is).
It is inherent in your solipsism that you think a point of view - on anything - can only be meaningful if it is expressed the way you express yourself. God forbid.
What makes me right is your failure to identify anything wrong.
A point of view is meaningful when it adds something full of meaning. If you just rearrange the words to say the same thing, what is the meaning?
No one has to point out that you are wrong for you to be in error. Basic fact - and logic.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
What makes me right is your failure to identify anything wrong.
A point of view is meaningful when it adds something full of meaning. If you just rearrange the words to say the same thing, what is the meaning?
No one has to point out that you are wrong for you to be in error. Basic fact - and logic.
But at a minimum, you would need to point out what is wrong before you could say that I am wrong.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No one has to point out that you are wrong for you to be in error. Basic fact - and logic.
But at a minimum, you would need to point out what is wrong before you could say that I am wrong.
Been done. Many times. By many.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
But at a minimum, you would need to point out what is wrong before you could say that I am wrong.
Been done. Many times. By many.
Many have expressed their personal beliefs, often without any support evidence or data, and sometimes cherry-picking half the data.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Been done. Many times. By many.
Many have expressed their personal beliefs, often without any support evidence or data, and sometimes cherry-picking half the data.
No one works harder at confirming their own prejudices than you. If it was an Olympic event you would win it.
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I really don't know what the arguing is about and the level of passion and vitriol involved. As stated previously, the red flags:
whether they enhance performance or not, a whole lot of long distance runners use substances banned by the athletics governing bodies. Read BANNED.
a truck load of Kenyan positive drug tests indicate a problem
law of averages says many more do not get popped
ridiculously fast times now appear to be run with ease (beyond that expected of improved gear technology)
major dominance of one country (region).
These to me are not disputable points.
As for the protagonists on this site, in these discussions; there is no place for racism or reverse racism in these arguments - that is, people dope because of race or people cannot be doping because of race.
And, bye the bye, if you ignore trolls, they will eventually go away.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Many have expressed their personal beliefs, often without any support evidence or data, and sometimes cherry-picking half the data.
No one works harder at confirming their own prejudices than you. If it was an Olympic event you would win it.
Can you be specific? Which prejudice exactly do you think I am confirming? If there are too many, just give me the top-3.
If you do not, or cannot, this is what I mean by expressing your personal belief without supporting evidence or data.
It's not that I work all that hard, but that you don't work at all.
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"No human is clean."
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No one works harder at confirming their own prejudices than you. If it was an Olympic event you would win it.
Can you be specific? Which prejudice exactly do you think I am confirming? If there are too many, just give me the top-3.
If you do not, or cannot, this is what I mean by expressing your personal belief without supporting evidence or data.
It's not that I work all that hard, but that you don't work at all.
Keep going. You'll get a medal soon.
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#97
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Just for 2022 mens Marathon
the 1st fastest, 10th fastest, 50th fastest, 100th fastest (for Kenya and Ethiopia), 200th fastest (for Kenya) Marathon runner:
Kenya (50 million) - 2:01:09 - 2:05:32 - 2:08:04 - 2:10:25 - 2:19:05
Ethiopia (122 million) - 2:04:14 - 2:05:07 - 2:08:23 - 2:14:00
rest East Africa (200 million) - 2:04:48 - 2:07:13 - 2:22:34
North Africa (mainly Morocco) (100 million) - 2:05:22 - 2:09:42 - 2:27:35
rest Africa (800 million) 2:07:56 - 2:15:10 - 2:27:36
Europe (750 million) - 2:08:30 - 2:10:55 - 2:14:37
North America (400 million) - 2:07:09 - 2:11:20 - 2:17:28
South & Central America (600 million) - 2:04:51 - 2:13:58 - 2:24:39
Oceania (40 million) - 2:09:52 - 2:17:43 - 2:28:32
East Asia (mainly Japan) (2000 million) - 2:05:28 - 2:07:55 - 2:10:29
The 100th fastest Kenyan (one country, big majority of the runners are from a few special regions) is half a minute faster than the 10th fastest European (including Russia).
Even if we assume 100% of all Kenyan and Ethiopian runners are dopers and 0% of the rest (obviously complete nonsense), it wouldn't explain those numbers.
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Impressive data, but what do you want to say with those?
That doping alone can't explain everything? I'd agree with that.
That doping is irrelevant? I'd disagree.
There was just a large thread here on letsrun about other reasons for Kenya’s and Ethiopia’s dominance in addition to doping, including culture + altitude + weather + maybe genes (such as calf diameter to height ratio or something). None of those are true for Belarus and Ukraine (and Russia) - see below. And I am sure by now we all know about the weak ooc testing - with warnings the day before or even earlier, see Reid C and Kiprop - in Kenya until recently...
So, I am going with doping + culture + altitude + weather + maybe genes (in no particular order).
Kenya has been ranked the top most country likely to dope according to the IAAF.
…
Kenya is also ranked besides Ethiopia, Belarus and Ukraine.20 -
casual obsever wrote:
Impressive data, but what do you want to say with those?
1) That doping alone can't explain everything? I'd agree with that.
2) That doping is irrelevant? I'd disagree.
1) Yes
2) No
Doping definitely is a factor. Doping in the marathon maybe is more common in Kenya (and also Ethiopia?) than it is in Europe or North America. But it's impossible that "doping" alone explains those numbers.
To me, the main reasons for those numbers are the one mentioned since decades.
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