The absurdity of the "drugs don't work" argument, sometimes rehearsed here, is that the athletes that take them experience otherwise. Some of those who have doped have talked of the extraordinary boost they have gained when doping - that was almost like feeling superhuman. If the average person knows what it feels like to take an anti-inflammatory, an athlete sure as hell knows what it feels like to take something far far stronger.
So if Kipchoge is too big of a whale to go down then how in the hell was Lance Armstrong taken down?
I don't think anyone other than Bolt is protected at all costs, but, for sure people do close an eye here or there. Otherwise, how would one explain that:
- neither UCI nor USADA went after Armstrong before his retirement (note his positive tests and several witness statements);
- no one went after Bolt, and the IAAF president basically declared him as too big to fail (note the positive tests of his teammate, and that all other sub 9.8 runners got banned or were caught doping at some point);
- the IAAF president publicly declared Radcliffe to be clean after her suspicious blood values were leaked, before the IAAF even began their in-house investigation;
- USADA let Coleman off the hook, by their tester stating that he didn't ring the bell for 8:00 despite arriving at 7:55;
- the AIU had to come over to the US and catch Coleman + McLean + Houlihan;
- the AIU had to come over to Kenya and catch Kiprop + Cherono;
- roid user Gay got away with a mini ban of 1 year;
Because they do, Jon. That's why we have antidoping.
+1
Aden’s wiki entry:
He said athletes who used drugs feared losing more than they feared detection. 'This will scare them,' he said. 'They're scared now. But they know if they get away with taking drugs they will run good times. They want to win and they are willing to take chances to win.'
More examples: banned drug cheat coach Salazar estimated a gain of 2 minutes in the marathon, and doping experts Ashenden and Parisotto 15 – 30 seconds over 5,000 m, and Schumacher up to 60 seconds over 10,000 m just for blood doping.
If the best clean athletes are beating the best dopers then there would be no reason to ban doping - it isn't performance enhancing. If you want to believe that. (Incidentally, most athletes don't - which is why they continue to dope).
This is an idiotic take. If you are clean and the one of the best athletes why would you risk doping? The best dopers need an edge to complete with the best. Now they may all be doping yes but this argument makes no sense. You could pump any sub-elite with every banned substance known to man and they still aren't going to compete with the best clean athlete on earth.
If you think Kacheran knew exactly what testosterone was going to give him and do to his body, you are out of your mind trust me! The fact he admitted early on taking it, make you wonder in what circumstances all of this occurred. Nobody is asking the real questions with kenyans athletes and this will keep going on for years if you ask me!
If you think Kacheran knew exactly what testosterone was going to give him and do to his body, you are out of your mind trust me! The fact he admitted early on taking it, make you wonder in what circumstances all of this occurred. Nobody is asking the real questions with kenyans athletes and this will keep going on for years if you ask me!
If you compare the life of an athlete like Kacheran with that of your garden variety Kenyan you really have to believe this will go on forever. He's made way more money than a typical Kenyan has. He's almost guaranteed to get away with it for at least a race or two and haul down some big bucks. If he can never compete again, from a financial standpoint it was worthwhile to dope.
If you think Kacheran knew exactly what testosterone was going to give him and do to his body, you are out of your mind trust me! The fact he admitted early on taking it, make you wonder in what circumstances all of this occurred. Nobody is asking the real questions with kenyans athletes and this will keep going on for years if you ask me!
If you compare the life of an athlete like Kacheran with that of your garden variety Kenyan you really have to believe this will go on forever. He's made way more money than a typical Kenyan has. He's almost guaranteed to get away with it for at least a race or two and haul down some big bucks. If he can never compete again, from a financial standpoint it was worthwhile to dope.
So now Armstronglivs has gone to bed it's time for you to take over again with the dopey folklore?
If you compare the life of an athlete like Kacheran with that of your garden variety Kenyan you really have to believe this will go on forever. He's made way more money than a typical Kenyan has. He's almost guaranteed to get away with it for at least a race or two and haul down some big bucks. If he can never compete again, from a financial standpoint it was worthwhile to dope.
So now Armstronglivs has gone to bed it's time for you to take over again with the dopey folklore?
It's dirty work, Jon. But someone has to lure you back.
Kipchoge is too big to fail and not even the AIU will pop him. All they can do is to pop athletes around him in an effort that he stops the freak show. As we saw in Berlin, that ain't happening...
All of these conspiracy theorists. I never get it. People don't think it logically through.
So if Kipchoge is too big of a whale to go down then how in the hell was Lance Armstrong taken down?
LA was not taken down by the cycling establishment, he was busted by the ruthless and indefatigable Travis Tygart who was empowered by the investigation of Jeff Novitzky.
That case was about flex, nothing else.
If Kipchoge was a republican-backer right now, you could be sure he’d be under investigation and the opposite would be true if there was a different administration.
The real questions need to be asked, what physician prescribed or injected the doping material. Who was aware or gave support in all of this (agents, managers, coach), now the more you shake the tree, heads will fall! For now, the athlete just need to admit and he gets what one to 4years ban and that’s it! The athlete gets caught but the system that may have corrupted him stays, good luck with that!
If the best clean athletes are beating the best dopers then there would be no reason to ban doping - it isn't performance enhancing. If you want to believe that. (Incidentally, most athletes don't - which is why they continue to dope).
This is an idiotic take. If you are clean and the one of the best athletes why would you risk doping? The best dopers need an edge to complete with the best. Now they may all be doping yes but this argument makes no sense. You could pump any sub-elite with every banned substance known to man and they still aren't going to compete with the best clean athlete on earth.
That's how I look at it too.
If you're already the best, why do you need to dope?
I imagine the argument could be that you may feel at some point in your career that you need to dope in order to stay at the top. So I guess there's that, but other than that, what other reason is there?
I look at someone like Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Is he doping? The 1500 is believed by some to have a disproportionate amount of dopers in relation to the other events. So is he beating them clean, or is he doped up too?
He has been world-class since he was like 16, right. So has he been doping since then, or is he just that good?
(And I guess he was a pacemaker for Kipchoge for 1:59, so maybe Ingebrigtsen is doping. And I kid, I naively believe Ingebrigtsen is clean. He's just a European that can beat some of the Africans.)
Same with Athing Mu. She's been known since at least 16. Did the Trenton Track Club have a doping program tailored for her, or is she just that good?
So some people are just that good. And of course some of the people who have always been good dope too. And naturally, the people who haven't always been as good as the best, and choose to dope in hopes of getting to that level, are part of the mix as well.
And yes, the sub-elite, or rather the "elite" that seemingly comes out of nowhere and suddenly becomes a world beater, yes, those people usually get caught.
Has any of them ever got away with that? If so, it can't be but a few.
Because those are usually flash in the pans, they rarely do it for years on end, and Olympics after Olympics. It's usually for a couple of good seasons, maybe a couple of records, and then they're gone; they either get caught or simply can't maintain that quality because that's not who they are, drug-aided or otherwise.
If the best clean athletes are beating the best dopers then there would be no reason to ban doping - it isn't performance enhancing. If you want to believe that. (Incidentally, most athletes don't - which is why they continue to dope).
This is an idiotic take. If you are clean and the one of the best athletes why would you risk doping? The best dopers need an edge to complete with the best. Now they may all be doping yes but this argument makes no sense. You could pump any sub-elite with every banned substance known to man and they still aren't going to compete with the best clean athlete on earth.
Why would you dope if clean? For the same reasons anyone dopes - to win, or at least do better. What happens if the best clean athletes dope? They become the best - better than any clean athlete. There is the incentive. In that case, the best dopers are better than the best clean athletes; no one can beat them - except an equally talented doper. And there you have modern sport.
This is an idiotic take. If you are clean and the one of the best athletes why would you risk doping? The best dopers need an edge to complete with the best. Now they may all be doping yes but this argument makes no sense. You could pump any sub-elite with every banned substance known to man and they still aren't going to compete with the best clean athlete on earth.
That's how I look at it too.
If you're already the best, why do you need to dope?
I imagine the argument could be that you may feel at some point in your career that you need to dope in order to stay at the top. So I guess there's that, but other than that, what other reason is there?
I look at someone like Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Is he doping? The 1500 is believed by some to have a disproportionate amount of dopers in relation to the other events. So is he beating them clean, or is he doped up too?
He has been world-class since he was like 16, right. So has he been doping since then, or is he just that good?
(And I guess he was a pacemaker for Kipchoge for 1:59, so maybe Ingebrigtsen is doping. And I kid, I naively believe Ingebrigtsen is clean. He's just a European that can beat some of the Africans.)
Same with Athing Mu. She's been known since at least 16. Did the Trenton Track Club have a doping program tailored for her, or is she just that good?
So some people are just that good. And of course some of the people who have always been good dope too. And naturally, the people who haven't always been as good as the best, and choose to dope in hopes of getting to that level, are part of the mix as well.
And yes, the sub-elite, or rather the "elite" that seemingly comes out of nowhere and suddenly becomes a world beater, yes, those people usually get caught.
Has any of them ever got away with that? If so, it can't be but a few.
Because those are usually flash in the pans, they rarely do it for years on end, and Olympics after Olympics. It's usually for a couple of good seasons, maybe a couple of records, and then they're gone; they either get caught or simply can't maintain that quality because that's not who they are, drug-aided or otherwise.
A top athlete who dopes will be better than if they are clean. Some of their competitors will have the same kind of talent. Can a clean athlete expect to beat someone with much the same talent who also dopes? Nope. Since athletes are unlikely to know for sure who of their competitors will be doping their best chance for beating them is if they, too, dope. And there is the rationale for doping. If you don't dope the other guy who beats you will. Just as top athletes won't know whether their competitors are clean or doping, so we also don't know (although we might guess). Those you think superior talents because you believe them to be clean may have arrived there through doping.
9 kenyans busted in the last 3 months, what an absolute joke. And somehow Ethiopia doesn’t have any doping busts, another total joke. Embarassing for the sport
Remember Renato Canova's original lie: Kenyans do not dope and it does not benefit them. This coming from an individual who profits off these athletes. Allowing him and other crooked agents is what has turned the sport into a doping cesspool.
Thanks aduck2022. I enjoy your posts. I don't understand why the various 'managers' and agents in East Africa appear to get a free ride no matter what. The powers that be should, 'follow the money'. It worked for Watergate.