If electric cars are really better, why do you need to ban gasoline cars?

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  • just a dead gorilla

    Harambe

    Member since 08/11/2016.

    20,543 posts. Last post 45 minutes ago.
    3 years ago 08/26/2022 10:46pm EDT
    re: Bad Wigins

    Bad Wigins wrote:

    You're the most pathetic jackwad ever to post here.

    Coal accounts for way more than 10%, despite being overtaken by fellow fossil fuel gas, and the power generation in question here is the EXCESS over what's used today. EV mandates would require a dramatic and quick increase, which would have to come from the most abundant and readily obtainable source. That's coal.

    Notice you didn't even try to prove the total-cost emissions would be lower. You have no position.

    Solar cost/W is well below that of Coal. And much more abundant. You're about 26.00 years late on the talking points, dub.

  • just a dead gorilla

    Harambe

    Member since 08/11/2016.

    20,543 posts. Last post 45 minutes ago.
    3 years ago 08/26/2022 10:47pm EDT
    re: lwood

    lwood wrote:

    zxcvzcvx wrote:

    Their rationale is simple. Gasoline cars pollute the environment. They are the biggest contributor to climate change in California.

    With regard to quality, someone might out of habit or ideology might hold onto gas cars without recognizing that they are costlier to operate, have worse acceleration, need more frequent repairs, cause more illness, etc. That's why companies advertise to generate brand loyalty as early as possible, because people then irrationally hold onto the brand. On the other hand, gas cars can be cheaper and will continue to be cheaper until electric cars are truly mass market items. Even now, Tesla has very high profit margins and could sell its cars a lot cheaper but doesn't have to lower the sticker price because of lack of competition.

    So I should get rid of my gas car and someone else buys it and it is still causing harm to the environment and now I have another car whose production causes harm to the environment. Why not just keep the car you have and stop producing so many new ones?

    Instead of forcing everyone to buy electric, why not just limit how often you can get a new car. Producing more and more cars does worse harm.

    Nobody is forcing anyone to get rid of their cars. CA is banning the sale of new ICE cars, that's all.

  • registered

    lwood

    Member since 08/11/2019.

    1,356 posts. Last post 1 year ago.
    3 years ago 08/26/2022 11:12pm EDT
    re: Harambe

    Harambe wrote:

    lwood wrote:

    So I should get rid of my gas car and someone else buys it and it is still causing harm to the environment and now I have another car whose production causes harm to the environment. Why not just keep the car you have and stop producing so many new ones?

    Instead of forcing everyone to buy electric, why not just limit how often you can get a new car. Producing more and more cars does worse harm.

    Nobody is forcing anyone to get rid of their cars. CA is banning the sale of new ICE cars, that's all.

    True, I'm responding to what you said.

    Also how is my gas car more costlier to operate than an electric car? The amount I spend on gas and repairs is way less than the cost of an electric car.

    You mentioned worse on acceleration- that's a very generalized statement. Depends on the cars. Also more frequent repairs? Depends on the car. Cause more illness? Brakes though...

    You're making generalizations and saying someone with a gas car is irrational. Nah fam.

  • None of these posts matter

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/27/2022 12:35am EDT
    re: V8 F150

    Here’s the thing: despite the hate we get, California determines the future. Everyone else tries to stay backwards as long as possible, but Silicon Valley calls the tune. Deal with it.

  • just a dead gorilla

    Harambe

    Member since 08/11/2016.

    20,543 posts. Last post 45 minutes ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 12:48am EDT
    re: lwood

    lwood wrote:

    Harambe wrote:

    Nobody is forcing anyone to get rid of their cars. CA is banning the sale of new ICE cars, that's all.

    True, I'm responding to what you said.

    Also how is my gas car more costlier to operate than an electric car? The amount I spend on gas and repairs is way less than the cost of an electric car.

    You mentioned worse on acceleration- that's a very generalized statement. Depends on the cars. Also more frequent repairs? Depends on the car. Cause more illness? Brakes though...

    You're making generalizations and saying someone with a gas car is irrational. Nah fam.

    Most estimates of total cost of ownership (purchase price + fuel + maintenance)/years of use put electric significantly less costly than gas.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 8:35am EDT
    re: noglacierforyou

    noglacierforyou wrote:

    Because they are not. The taxes on fossil fuels are already very high while electricity is often subsidized. Of course they only need to ban gas cars because they are afried even with those taxes and subsidies people wont go for the "better" product.

    The taxes on gasoline only pay for the roads, not the pollution.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 8:45am EDT
    re: HRE

    HRE wrote:

    noglacierforyou wrote:

    Because they are not. The taxes on fossil fuels are already very high while electricity is often subsidized. Of course they only need to ban gas cars because they are afried even with those taxes and subsidies people wont go for the "better" product.

    That's my take. I drove nearly 600 miles yesterday in about nine and a half hours. I stopped for gas twice. Neither refueling took longer than five minutes. I want no part of a car where refueling takes 5-6 times longer. If they get that worked out, and the cost down, it a different ballgame.

    I just went to abetterrouteplanner.com and input a 600 mile EV trip from my house. It only required 3 stops of 20 minutes each. This is enough time to use the bathroom and get something to eat.

    On your gas car trip of that length, you will almost certainly make stops that are longer than 5 minutes because you still need to eat and use the bathroom.

    So it's a slightly longer trip when you need to go 600 miles in one day. But you more than make up for the time while you are at home because you never need to visit a gas station or a Quick Lube.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 8:51am EDT
    re: good thoughts...

    good thoughts... wrote:

    fkkfkfkfkf wrote:

    Instead they will have to worry about replacing batteries and drive motors. It isn't like Tesla are know for reliability and they are all pretty much brand new. Who knows what they will be like at 15 years. And most of the other EVs have no track record at all. Go price out some EV extended warranty and note how it costs as much as an ICE. That is what OEMs think of how reliable the cars will be.

    We are pretty close to the inflexion point where cost of ownership of EVs will be less because of electricity costs. But paying 5k more upfront and getting it back over say 7 years is a tough sell for a lot of people.

    Electricity costs will go up or some component of EV ownership will have to. The taxes collected from gasoline will need to come from somewhere.

    Many states, including mine, are already charging large fees to own an EV. It more than makes up for the revenue lost from the fact that I don't have to pay the state gas tax.

    But that's only at the state level. There will need to be a change in the federal gas tax that I don't pay.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 8:54am EDT
    re: Rainy Day

    Rainy Day wrote:

    MakeItSimple wrote:

    For the mouth breathers (and the OP) let's make this simple. In the next ten years or so, you will be unable to buy an ICE car, like it or not. AT some point fairly soon thereafter, you will not be able to legally operate an ICE car on roads in the US. You will be unable to get ICE cars repaired, you will be unable to buy gasoline for ICE cars, the entire market and infrastructure are going to make a switch to support charging infrastructure and BEV maintenance.

    Nobody who matters cares whether you like it or not. It's going to be great for the economy, great for the country, great for every set of lungs on the planet, a small step forward for the world.

    You don't like it? Tough s-it.

    You are probably wrong. I say probably because we can’t predict the future, but no way we give low income families 10 years or soon after to drive exclusively EVs. Will every apartment complex have charging stations for every car?

    Will celebrities still be able to fly their gasoline fueled jets and super yachts? How about cargo ships and commercial airlines?

    EVs seem to be the future, but 10 years is not doable. A lot people don’t even buy a car every 10 years.

    The law only affects the sales of new EVs. You can still own and drive a gas car if you want after 2035.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 8:56am EDT
    re: Juvie

    Juvie wrote:

    HRE wrote:

    That's my take. I drove nearly 600 miles yesterday in about nine and a half hours. I stopped for gas twice. Neither refueling took longer than five minutes. I want no part of a car where refueling takes 5-6 times longer. If they get that worked out, and the cost down, it a different ballgame.

    Refueling currently takes up to 100x longer. Even with fast charging stations, recharging to 90% takes an hour.

    No, it doesn't. Most charging stops on long trips are less than half an hour. My typical road trip stops in my Tesla are 15 to 20 minutes.

  • Sally Vixxxxxxxxens

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/27/2022 8:58am EDT
    re: Fat hurts

    Fat hurts wrote:

    Juvie wrote:

    Refueling currently takes up to 100x longer. Even with fast charging stations, recharging to 90% takes an hour.

    No, it doesn't. Most charging stops on long trips are less than half an hour. My typical road trip stops in my Tesla are 15 to 20 minutes.

    My typical road stops in my car are maybe 1 minute.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 8:58am EDT
    re: KB in da house..

    KB in da house.. wrote:

    Monkey see monkey do wrote:

    There already has been a huge leap in the past 10 years. Electric cars are cheaper and have ranges 300mi+

    Its coming faster than you think.

    Way I see it is that EVs need at least 1000 miles of range. I want to be able to go to Montreal and back or new Hampshire and back without worrying about where I'm recharging and for how long. Need to be able to go to Florida non stop

    You don't need to worry. The car will tell you where to stop and for how long. Nobody drives 1000 miles without using the bathroom.

    300 miles of range is plenty for a comfortable road trip.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:00am EDT
    re: KB in da house..

    KB in da house.. wrote:

    Lol. And what makes the power that the EV uses to recharge when plugged in said socket?

    That's the beauty of EVs. As the grid gets greener, all the EVs get greener.

    Most of the new electric generation capacity being added to the grid these days is wind and solar.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:03am EDT
    re: Sally Vixxxxxxxxens

    Sally Vixxxxxxxxens wrote:

    Sactown runner wrote:

    That’s great. However, what percentage of drivers will want to keep the same vehicle for 500k miles - especially with improving technology? I doubt drivers will hold onto EVs longer than they do ICE vehicles.

    EV owners won't want to keep their cars as long as ICE car owners. The technologies of EVs keeps improving rapidly as does the range of EVs. Owners will not want to keep their EV for any longer than 2 or 3 years. Also, the EV battery is so heavy. The battery of the EV Hummer weighs about 3,500 pounds or about the same as a Honda Civic. Imagine what that does to the suspension, struts and shock absorbers. The car will drive like crap after about 100k miles. Imagine after 200 miles. It will be bouncing up and down the road.

    So your argument is that engineers don't know how to design a suspension for a heavy vehicle?

  • Sally Vixxxxxxxxens

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:04am EDT
    re: Fat hurts

    Fat hurts wrote:

    KB in da house.. wrote:

    Way I see it is that EVs need at least 1000 miles of range. I want to be able to go to Montreal and back or new Hampshire and back without worrying about where I'm recharging and for how long. Need to be able to go to Florida non stop

    You don't need to worry. The car will tell you where to stop and for how long. Nobody drives 1000 miles without using the bathroom.

    300 miles of range is plenty for a comfortable road trip.

    The NASA space shuttle pilot lady in a love triangle drove non-stop from Houston to Florida (maybe about 1500 miles - just guessing) to confont her rival wearing diapers so she wouldn't have to stop.

  • Sally Vixxxxxxxxens

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:05am EDT
    re: Fat hurts

    Fat hurts wrote:

    Sally Vixxxxxxxxens wrote:

    EV owners won't want to keep their cars as long as ICE car owners. The technologies of EVs keeps improving rapidly as does the range of EVs. Owners will not want to keep their EV for any longer than 2 or 3 years. Also, the EV battery is so heavy. The battery of the EV Hummer weighs about 3,500 pounds or about the same as a Honda Civic. Imagine what that does to the suspension, struts and shock absorbers. The car will drive like crap after about 100k miles. Imagine after 200 miles. It will be bouncing up and down the road.

    So your argument is that engineers don't know how to design a suspension for a heavy vehicle?

    If you put a 3,500 pound battery in a truck - I don't care how well your suspension is designed - it is going to take a toll on the suspension.

  • registered

    Fat hurts

    Member since 08/27/2014.

    11,272 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:10am EDT
    re: In Russia tree hugs you

    In Russia tree hugs you wrote:

    Monkey see monkey do wrote:

    What about just reducing air pollution?

    Air pollution leads to lower test scores, more miscarriages, asthma, etc.

    Its a scourge that rich countries should work very hard to eliminate.

    Unfortunately California could reach net zero emissions but still face smog and air pollution due to China and India not giving a crap about the environment.

    Link:www.treehugger.com/china-polluting-cal...

    China does care about the environment and they are selling a lot more EVs in China than in the US, both as a percentage and raw units sold.

    Also, China is doing a better job at transitioning to clean energy. This is something I hope the Inflation Reduction Act will change.

    The problem is that China manufactures all the stuff we buy so they currently need a lot more coal power.

    No nation on earth is really doing enough, but we can't look down on China when our own environmental record is so abysmal.

  • Sally Vixxxxxxxxens

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:13am EDT
    re: Fat hurts

    Fat hurts wrote:

    In Russia tree hugs you wrote:

    Unfortunately California could reach net zero emissions but still face smog and air pollution due to China and India not giving a crap about the environment.

    Link:www.treehugger.com/china-polluting-cal...

    China does care about the environment and they are selling a lot more EVs in China than in the US, both as a percentage and raw units sold.

    Also, China is doing a better job at transitioning to clean energy. This is something I hope the Inflation Reduction Act will change.

    The problem is that China manufactures all the stuff we buy so they currently need a lot more coal power.

    No nation on earth is really doing enough, but we can't look down on China when our own environmental record is so abysmal.

    China doesn't care about the environment. Please don't say that. What are they doing to improve the environment?

  • registered

    runnerboy70

    Member since 01/14/2021.

    3,797 posts. Last post 2 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:17am EDT
    re: V8 F150

    V8 F150 wrote:

    To answer the OP, they are not better, they are far worse than regular cars...The left knows that the only way we will convert is to FORCE us...

  • Sally Vixxxxxxxxens

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/27/2022 9:17am EDT
    re: Fat hurts

    Fat hurts wrote:

    In Russia tree hugs you wrote:

    Unfortunately California could reach net zero emissions but still face smog and air pollution due to China and India not giving a crap about the environment.

    Link:www.treehugger.com/china-polluting-cal...

    China does care about the environment and they are selling a lot more EVs in China than in the US, both as a percentage and raw units sold.

    Also, China is doing a better job at transitioning to clean energy. This is something I hope the Inflation Reduction Act will change.

    The problem is that China manufactures all the stuff we buy so they currently need a lot more coal power.

    No nation on earth is really doing enough, but we can't look down on China when our own environmental record is so abysmal.

    Our CO2 emissions have been going down. China's CO2 emissions are roughly the same as the US, India, Russia, Japan, Iran, Germany and South Korea if your combine all of those countries. Again, what is China doing to improve the environment?

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