What a great story! I see coyotes everyday for the past 3+ years, even packs of them. They always scurry away timidly. This is top 3 in the scam department:
1. That crazy girl who said a bear chased her for miles and she ended up in a tree.
2. The Badwater cheater fitness mom who won’t answer questions
Yes attacks can happen but in this instance we have to look at the witness. Many people here have pointed out that the witness is not credible. So it’s up to us to discern if this non credible witness is telling the truth about something that might be possible but is still highly unlikely.
Most trail runners have probably had many uneventful coyote encounters - many responders to this thread included who see them all the time. If he's like me, Karnazes has also had many, maybe even dozens of coyote encounters in his life before this one. Why would you think he's lying when he talks about the oddball encounter that was eventful? That would be the whole reason for talking about it - that it was not the usual coyote sighting.
I think he’s lying because it’s an incredible story told in what appears to be an insincere way by a non-credible, self-promoting, and attention-seeking person known for hyperbole and embellishment. And that’s being kind.
These experts are idiots and everyone who thinks coyotes don't attack people have no clue. Maybe that used to be the case, but urbanized coyotes are not afraid and can be very aggressive, even in broad daylight. In Vancouver, in Stanley park, 45 people were attacked in less than a year. People just walking had a coyote come up out of nowhere and nip them.
That's just Stanley park. The coyotes in all the neighboring regions of greater Vancouver have also become aggressive toward humans and you have to take them seriously. I've personally had a couple of freaky encounters with coyotes (who are bigger than you think) following me as I ran. Where I live I also have to worry about cougars and black bears, but no black bear has ever chased me (I see them all the time but they run away or ignore me). It is for sure far more likely than a coyote would attack me than a black bear. I've never had a black bear follow me for over ten minutes, that's for sure.
To be clear - I hate Dean, I mean an unnatural burning hatred. But, it is absolutely possible a urbanized coyote came up and nipped at him out of nowhere and he fell down as a result.
Vancouver officials optimistic changes in Stanley Park are bringing aggressive coyote attacks to heel | CBC News
Idiots is strong but your points are correct. In Oregon, my pit fought off two coyotes that were chasing her. I got to the scene and she came on command. The coyotes did not move. They started to come closer and followed us for a bit not afraid at all of a human. I picked up a stick and thought I’d have to fight them off.
I guess you didn’t read the article with actual animal experts who said that his description was highly improbable and not at all typical of the way coyotes behave. Given that it would be atypical behavior, if he was indeed attacked by a coyote, an abundance of caution would necessitate getting treatment for rabies.
Cuts and abrasions were incurred in this apparent ‘attack.’ Dean spoke of the animal going after an energy bar. Saliva contact with mucus membranes or broken skin can pass along rabies.
If it happened the way he said it did, he’s be getting treatment for rabies.
“In an email exchange, Karnazes answered questions from SFGATE about the incident. At first, he deflected.“
I did read the article. That's not typical behavior? Well, duh. That's the first thing I said, as well as everyone in this thread. The experts didn't say anything that any trail runner who has seen a lot of coyotes wouldn't know. The experts literally did not add anything to the story. They only repeated what Karnazes said - that his injuries were from the fall, not the coyote.
I don't know if Karnazes is disclosing if he is getting treatment for rabies or not, but that's his decision. But it's not like he fell over and got some open wounds, and then a coyote came over and licked his wounds. He supposedly got knocked over by the coyote, which then resulted in injuries. He would know better than anyone if there was possible contact between coyote saliva and any open wounds he had.
In high school back in '86, I was trail running with some teammates in a county park and was bitten by a stray dog with actual puncture wounds from its canines. I had no idea if the stray dog had its rabies shot. I went to the ER, and even then they didn't advise getting rabies treatment.
coyotes are famously known for never attacking humans, which is why they are universally beloved creatures. His claims are inherently implausible, any person can see.
Whatever. I'm not here to defend that guy, I'm here because I freaking hate urbanized coyotes and I think the problem is getting worse. The first time it was one coyote who followed me, the last time it was two. It was really not cool. You may think you can take down a coyote, but can you take out two? I think any coyote in any urban area should be put down immediately. They are far from endangered and are pretty much an invasive species. They are smart as hell and are adapting to not fear humans at all and we need to teach them to fear humans.
Yes, I do think I could take down two coyotes. Also, urbanized coyotes are great and ~75% of their diet is rats/mice.
I've seen coyotes both in the city and on the trails and they've followed me on a few occassions, but never any issues and zero reports of any attacks with the exception being people walking their small dogs. I once ran into a pack of 7+ coyotes in the woods, and that was the only time I was mildly concerned, but they quickly scattered. I'm sure I could not take down 7 coyotes.
They are terrible. In Vancouver, where the poster above is from, they run up to kids playing and bite them, unprovoked. People playing disc golf have been jumped, which might seem fair because disc golf, but in actuality its a problem for our parks.
The City should kill them on sight. We can manage rats without coyotes, which obviously aren't in most of the areas of town and definitely not downtown.
I did read the article. That's not typical behavior? Well, duh. That's the first thing I said, as well as everyone in this thread.
Ok, we’re going around and around in circles. When a coyote behaves atypically AND attacks without being captured it will be presumed to carry rabies until otherwise known. Standard rules of logic demand this
In this ‘attack’, Dean received abrasions and cuts. He implied that the animal either attempted to/ or took an energy bar from him. In that process saliva could have been transferred between them. It’s not necessary to receive puncture wounds from teeth in order to get rabies.
Dean was interviewed extensively about this after by multiple media outlets. I don’t believe that rabies treatment is a detail that would have escaped.
The guy is full of crap. Here is what I believe actually happened:
1) Dean was running at night and tripped. Maybe he saw glowing eyes nearby.
2) He made a dramatic video claiming to have been attacked to get attention
3) Pushback from park rangers and animal experts ensued and the story changed somewhat
4) He refused follow-up interviews in-person or by phone and received questions by email
5) He did the best he could to salvage and wants to move on now
This sequence of events is much more logical and probable than what he provided. It doesn’t require ‘could of’ thinking.
These experts are idiots and everyone who thinks coyotes don't attack people have no clue. Maybe that used to be the case, but urbanized coyotes are not afraid and can be very aggressive, even in broad daylight. In Vancouver, in Stanley park, 45 people were attacked in less than a year. People just walking had a coyote come up out of nowhere and nip them.
That's just Stanley park. The coyotes in all the neighboring regions of greater Vancouver have also become aggressive toward humans and you have to take them seriously. I've personally had a couple of freaky encounters with coyotes (who are bigger than you think) following me as I ran. Where I live I also have to worry about cougars and black bears, but no black bear has ever chased me (I see them all the time but they run away or ignore me). It is for sure far more likely than a coyote would attack me than a black bear. I've never had a black bear follow me for over ten minutes, that's for sure.
To be clear - I hate Dean, I mean an unnatural burning hatred. But, it is absolutely possible a urbanized coyote came up and nipped at him out of nowhere and he fell down as a result.
Vancouver officials optimistic changes in Stanley Park are bringing aggressive coyote attacks to heel | CBC News
Those urbanized coyote gangs always causing trouble.
Idiots is strong but your points are correct. In Oregon, my pit fought off two coyotes that were chasing her. I got to the scene and she came on command. The coyotes did not move. They started to come closer and followed us for a bit not afraid at all of a human. I picked up a stick and thought I’d have to fight them off.
I get it. Interactions with wild life can be scary. You can report this as a first person experience and it does come across to me as you were frightened. Your interpretation of what happened might not be the same as the coyotes’. There is a big difference
What you reported is not an attack but an interaction where the coyotes held their ground and seemed to want you to leave the area. They could have been guarding a den or food cache. Coyotes are mostly monogamous and can often be encountered as a bonded pair. In either case, your dog (that was apparently off-leash and out of your direct control) may have shown what they felt was an inappropriate amount of interest in something that they regarded as theirs. You might have not seen this part of things and even if it happened on your property, the coyotes don’t respect your fence line.
Is your dog spayed? If not, that could explain a lot.
So your description of brandishing a stick and ‘thinking you might have to fight them off’ is completely credible to me. It’s your interpretation that I question.
Idiots is strong but your points are correct. In Oregon, my pit fought off two coyotes that were chasing her. I got to the scene and she came on command. The coyotes did not move. They started to come closer and followed us for a bit not afraid at all of a human. I picked up a stick and thought I’d have to fight them off.
I get it. Interactions with wild life can be scary. You can report this as a first person experience and it does come across to me as you were frightened. Your interpretation of what happened might not be the same as the coyotes’. There is a big difference
What you reported is not an attack but an interaction where the coyotes held their ground and seemed to want you to leave the area. They could have been guarding a den or food cache. Coyotes are mostly monogamous and can often be encountered as a bonded pair. In either case, your dog (that was apparently off-leash and out of your direct control) may have shown what they felt was an inappropriate amount of interest in something that they regarded as theirs. You might have not seen this part of things and even if it happened on your property, the coyotes don’t respect your fence line.
Is your dog spayed? If not, that could explain a lot.
So your description of brandishing a stick and ‘thinking you might have to fight them off’ is completely credible to me. It’s your interpretation that I question.
Fair play. It was a weird, dark, snowy morning and my dog was following every scent. I lost sight of her for no more than 2 minutes. I’ve run across many coyotes, some much bigger than this past April. All have run away. I was surprised to not have them run away as I approached and to have them follow us. I’ve learned than Jan-Jun are months for me to be on the look out for both coyotes and elk.
Yes, coyotes attack dogs. That is normal coyote behavior.
Yes, coyotes attack small children (rarely). That is normal/expected coyote behavior. Small children are... small.
They do NOT attack adult men... unless maybe they are rabid. Dean Karnazes is not a small person. I don't think the coyote attacked Dean in any way. He saw a coyote, panicked, and tripped. He then became bloodied in the fall. He embellished the story. I follow Dean on Facebook (not sure why?) and he DEFINITELY implied that he was "attacked."
Someone mentioned that they have been attacked by a stray dog while running. Unfortunately, yes, that happens. Completely different species. But coyotes do not do that. If you lived in an area with more coyotes, you would know that.
I did read the article. That's not typical behavior? Well, duh. That's the first thing I said, as well as everyone in this thread.
Ok, we’re going around and around in circles. When a coyote behaves atypically AND attacks without being captured it will be presumed to carry rabies until otherwise known. Standard rules of logic demand this
In this ‘attack’, Dean received abrasions and cuts. He implied that the animal either attempted to/ or took an energy bar from him. In that process saliva could have been transferred between them. It’s not necessary to receive puncture wounds from teeth in order to get rabies.
Dean was interviewed extensively about this after by multiple media outlets. I don’t believe that rabies treatment is a detail that would have escaped.
The guy is full of crap. Here is what I believe actually happened:
1) Dean was running at night and tripped. Maybe he saw glowing eyes nearby.
2) He made a dramatic video claiming to have been attacked to get attention
3) Pushback from park rangers and animal experts ensued and the story changed somewhat
4) He refused follow-up interviews in-person or by phone and received questions by email
5) He did the best he could to salvage and wants to move on now
This sequence of events is much more logical and probable than what he provided. It doesn’t require ‘could of’ thinking.
1) and 2) is what you put out there just because you dislike the guy. I haven't watched that video, but I think it's improbable that anyone would just trip and completely make up a story like that. Tripping is a common thing in trail running, sometimes you get bloodied. That's why I say check your bias. 3) - we already agree that the pushback was just stating what the common experience is. Doesn't add anything to the story. His story changed somewhat? His interpretation is not the same as the coyotes. There's no reason it is set in stone. He's guessing one way, then another way. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's a bit analogous to how police get people to confess to crimes they didn't commit.
These experts are idiots and everyone who thinks coyotes don't attack people have no clue. Maybe that used to be the case, but urbanized coyotes are not afraid and can be very aggressive, even in broad daylight. In Vancouver, in Stanley park, 45 people were attacked in less than a year. People just walking had a coyote come up out of nowhere and nip them.
That's just Stanley park. The coyotes in all the neighboring regions of greater Vancouver have also become aggressive toward humans and you have to take them seriously. I've personally had a couple of freaky encounters with coyotes (who are bigger than you think) following me as I ran. Where I live I also have to worry about cougars and black bears, but no black bear has ever chased me (I see them all the time but they run away or ignore me). It is for sure far more likely than a coyote would attack me than a black bear. I've never had a black bear follow me for over ten minutes, that's for sure.
To be clear - I hate Dean, I mean an unnatural burning hatred. But, it is absolutely possible a urbanized coyote came up and nipped at him out of nowhere and he fell down as a result.
Vancouver officials optimistic changes in Stanley Park are bringing aggressive coyote attacks to heel | CBC News
I just want to thank you personally for taking a break from being a Covid/Ukraine/inflation expert to become a coyote expert.
Whatever. I'm not here to defend that guy, I'm here because I freaking hate urbanized coyotes and I think the problem is getting worse. The first time it was one coyote who followed me, the last time it was two. It was really not cool. You may think you can take down a coyote, but can you take out two? I think any coyote in any urban area should be put down immediately. They are far from endangered and are pretty much an invasive species. They are smart as hell and are adapting to not fear humans at all and we need to teach them to fear humans.
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