Yes, this is about the kids. Do we want to tell them that the way to be a great XC runner is to choose easy courses and brag about your "fast" times, even though everyone else on the course also ran a PR by 20 seconds? I think we should tell them that their value as a runner comes from competing in less than perfect conditions and overcoming the challenges of a hard course.
Or you could maybe ask them what kind of course they enjoy and take them to that event accordingly.
That's not what the sport is about. Again, you are telling kids that it's okay (or even preferred) to choose the easy path. Nobody likes running up hills, even the best hill runners have trepidation before a race. Cross country is a sport with hills, long grass, maybe some dirt, gravel or mud ... the sport for fast courses is track.
If they spent millions to develop a ridiculously flat, fast course, they are not cross-country fans, they are opportunists who play up the egotistical side of the sport, not the hard working and competitive side of the sport. That is a change for the worse. They are not doing it for sport, they are doing it for show.
Cross country has hills and challenges, whatever they are going for is not cross country.
Honest question have you been to see the Huntsville course? I've seen it twice now and while it isn't hilly it definitely isn't a downhill race track as some might try to claim.
Lastly, have you polled the kids what they like? Or is it not about them? I'll hang up and listen.
I don't remember if the pros were polled before the 2019 World Cross Country Championships in Denmark. That was a truly nasty hill there, but the tough ones gutted it out.. If you fear the conditions, you're in the wrong sport. When I've been to the NXN finish, the runners are muddy and wet. Classic!
Honestly runninglane makes more sense than Nike. If you're an individual you can now run footlocker/Eastbay then your team can run running lane and not worry about qualifying. Only qualifier would be the individual one.
Actually they did. There are 3 national championships this year for XC and 4 for track. So kids have choices about where they run. US runners knew where the world championship course was and the US championship was. Most US runners chose not to compete because they decided to run on the track or the roads.
Or you could maybe ask them what kind of course they enjoy and take them to that event accordingly.
That's not what the sport is about. Again, you are telling kids that it's okay (or even preferred) to choose the easy path. Nobody likes running up hills, even the best hill runners have trepidation before a race. Cross country is a sport with hills, long grass, maybe some dirt, gravel or mud ... the sport for fast courses is track.
You've missed the point of XC I see. the point is that every course is different. The only xc course that would be faster than a track would be a completely downhill course which hopefully doesn't exist lol.
Honestly since elite highschool track has been completely dilluted xc will go that route as well. I have always been a big fan of the footlocker format mostly due to the history of the course. Now Runninglane also has historical context with the greatest team ever running there and one of the fastest all-around runners winning there setting the bar extremely high. If I am an elite highschooler I think it would be cool to know I can run a fast course all out and vaguely see time wise how I compare to some of the sub 4/sub 13 highschoolers who have run the course.
Now I know time isn't everything but when you do run fast you can be compared to the likes of:
Running Lane:
Colin Sahlman
younger Young bros
Gary Martin
Parker Wolfe
Natalie Cook
Hutchins
Nike's course:
Tuohy
Nico
Clinger
Allie O
Footlocker Sandiego:
Fisher
Verzbicas
Hunter
Ches
Solinksy
Withrow(legend)
Not going to name them all but you can definitely take much more from times run here to indicate how they will do in track.
Or you could maybe ask them what kind of course they enjoy and take them to that event accordingly.
That's not what the sport is about. Again, you are telling kids that it's okay (or even preferred) to choose the easy path. Nobody likes running up hills, even the best hill runners have trepidation before a race. Cross country is a sport with hills, long grass, maybe some dirt, gravel or mud ... the sport for fast courses is track.
This is why we are a weak player on the world stage. Too much emphasis on times, time trials, watches, and easy manicured courses. Not enough attention paid to grit, mental strength, and learning how to truly race. You never hear the Africans moaning about dirt tracks, hilly dirt roads, and spartan training camps. American kids and coaches are obsessed with shorter travel, hotel quality, what the supplied race kits look like, and whether anyone compacted the course with a steamroller because it drizzled two nights prior to the race.
That's not what the sport is about. Again, you are telling kids that it's okay (or even preferred) to choose the easy path. Nobody likes running up hills, even the best hill runners have trepidation before a race. Cross country is a sport with hills, long grass, maybe some dirt, gravel or mud ... the sport for fast courses is track.
This is why we are a weak player on the world stage. Too much emphasis on times, time trials, watches, and easy manicured courses. Not enough attention paid to grit, mental strength, and learning how to truly race. You never hear the Africans moaning about dirt tracks, hilly dirt roads, and spartan training camps. American kids and coaches are obsessed with shorter travel, hotel quality, what the supplied race kits look like, and whether anyone compacted the course with a steamroller because it drizzled two nights prior to the race.
You couldn't be more wrong. If anything we have been becoming more relevant on the world stage in the last 10 years.
Give us a break! Just because a few Americans break through, we have nowhere close to the depth of talent found in Africa. The homerism on this site is laughable. A white boy gets a surprise top finish and it is time to claim parity and to start chanting, "USA! USA! USA!".
Can you list for us all of sub-12:55 5000 men and our long list of under 26:50 10K guys? How about detailing the deep roster of American sub 2:06 marathon runners? How many global, scratch that, how many NCAA champions have come out of Newbury Park, Great Oak, Fayetteville-Manlius, Saratoga Springs, et al?
With all the best gear and facilities, a bunch of enigmatic high school coaches, and a metric crap ton of shoe company money funding numerous national championships with perfect conditions, we will continue to be bested by simple farmers, policemen, and soldiers with toughness, desire, and the will to thrive in less than ideal conditions.
Give us a break! Just because a few Americans break through, we have nowhere close to the depth of talent found in Africa. The homerism on this site is laughable. A white boy gets a surprise top finish and it is time to claim parity and to start chanting, "USA! USA! USA!".
Can you list for us all of sub-12:55 5000 men and our long list of under 26:50 10K guys? How about detailing the deep roster of American sub 2:06 marathon runners? How many global, scratch that, how many NCAA champions have come out of Newbury Park, Great Oak, Fayetteville-Manlius, Saratoga Springs, et al?
With all the best gear and facilities, a bunch of enigmatic high school coaches, and a metric crap ton of shoe company money funding numerous national championships with perfect conditions, we will continue to be bested by simple farmers, policemen, and soldiers with toughness, desire, and the will to thrive in less than ideal conditions.
I said "more relevant" and my point stands, just take a look at the progress we have made. You must be one of the mudrun idiots. Ask your kids what they like, if you even have any. My guess is you don't coach or have any kids yourself, you are just some old dude that is living the glory days of winning 5ks in 18 minutes cause the course was crap. Or you are a Nike employee.
Olympic finishes in track and field from 1992-present in distances 800 and up. Looks like progress to me. Have fun playing in the mud!
I think it’s starting to get really disappointing that NXN came back based on how many teams would rather go to RunningLane for times and how many top teams the Southwest region has right now. And how close apart Jesuit LA’s NXR and state meet are
The Huntsville course is the perfect course for a national championship. Honestly wish we had pros running there for the usatf xc meets as well
Why do you think it is the perfect course? You have no point unless you back it up with reasons. The USATF would laugh at using that course for XC, they want real courses.
The Huntsville course is the perfect course for a national championship. Honestly wish we had pros running there for the usatf xc meets as well
Why do you think it is the perfect course? You have no point unless you back it up with reasons. The USATF would laugh at using that course for XC, they want real courses.
I don't have a strong opinion on this, but the USATF has a lot of their own problems. THey shouldn't laugh at anything.
fwiw, i don't have a great team, but I have one kid who might be good enough to qualify through nike or eastbay. I will have a very thorough conversation with him about the options and let him make the choice with his family. nike, eastbay, runninglane. will hopefully have a good picture of what everybody is doing by october.
And who knows, Nike might cancel NXN in September again just like they did last year
Being in the midst of a pandemic with numbers on the rise again and the logistics of Nike bringing in 400 athletes plus 100 adults to the same hotel, same buses, same dining hall, AND with their campus still closed to employees, it really wasn't a surprise to most people. Disappointing, yes, but also logical from their standpoint.
RL has an impressive event and although I'm from the camp that cross country shouldn't be about times, I also realize RL will still be very appealing to many top teams and individuals, but enough with the "Nike bailed" sentiment.
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