I was merely pointing out an omission/factually inaccurate statement.
Yeah, it was a good callout. But I just wanted to explain my reasoning. I don't think Joe Klecker and Moh Ahmed are comparable for a number of reasons that I outlined there.
You defended Fisher skipping the 3k at WCs to run a time trial, so you’re the last person who should be criticizing Klecker for skipping the 5k at USAs (when he is already qualified for the 10k and never had any intention of doubling) to chase sub-13 in a real race on the DL circuit.
Fans like myself want to see the big names in BTC running DL races more than once or twice a year. I would give any of them a pass if they were in Klecker or Monson’s position and made the same choice.
Of course he had some intention of doubling. He was signed up for the race! Answer honestly, as a fan of the sport: would you really have preferred to watch Klecker run 13:04 in Oslo last weekend or run the USA 5k championships this weekend?
This has already been explained to you multiple times so I’m not going to bother. And again, you personally have ZERO room to talk here because you already gave Fisher a free pass to skip World Indoors.
As someone who actually watches and enjoys the Diamond League, I’m happy with Klecker’s decision. I’d rather see our guys mix it up on the circuit with the rest of the world than stay home and only race each other.
Fine. I guess we'll never agree on the appropriate response. Whatever. I still like most of the athletes and will continue to follow/cheer for them. You guys don't have to.
Well going onto threads about other runners/teams to hijack them to complain about how you think BTC is unfairly stigmatized may not be the most compelling approach to convince people of your stance.
Of course he had some intention of doubling. He was signed up for the race! Answer honestly, as a fan of the sport: would you really have preferred to watch Klecker run 13:04 in Oslo last weekend or run the USA 5k championships this weekend?
This has already been explained to you multiple times so I’m not going to bother. And again, you personally have ZERO room to talk here because you already gave Fisher a free pass to skip World Indoors.
As someone who actually watches and enjoys the Diamond League, I’m happy with Klecker’s decision. I’d rather see our guys mix it up on the circuit with the rest of the world than stay home and only race each other.
As I have explained many times, I am playing devil's advocate here. Sometimes athletes will choose what is best for them and not what is best for the fans. This is totally fine in my opinion, but many on this board have a problem with it.
That being said, I personally (as a fan) would rather see Klecker run USAs as opposed to a 2nd rate diamond league in Oslo. But maybe you don't care for the USAs. Fine.
Fine. I guess we'll never agree on the appropriate response. Whatever. I still like most of the athletes and will continue to follow/cheer for them. You guys don't have to.
Well going onto threads about other runners/teams to hijack them to complain about how you think BTC is unfairly stigmatized may not be the most compelling approach to convince people of your stance.
I was not even close to the first person to bring up BTC in this thread. I was perhaps only the 6th different poster to mention. The hijack was already in motion. But whatever, nobody changes their mind from an internet discussion anyway, so I won't bother anymore. I'll continue supporting and cheering for the BTC athletes, you guys don't have to.
Yeah I agree. I have no love for BTC, particularly after their handling of Shelby, but feels pretty hypocritical for people to praise OAC for doing something they would have crushed BTC for.
I don't think most people would crush BTC if they did the same thing, except maybe Fisher. Fisher is only an exception because he is a legit medal threat in both events and wants to double. If Schweizer went to Europe to race a 5k in 14:33, scratched from the US 5k, and said her full focus was on medaling in the 10k at worlds, I think most people would be ok with it.
BTC would have run an intersquad time trial with no cameras or documentation of it occurring.
Yeah I agree. I have no love for BTC, particularly after their handling of Shelby, but feels pretty hypocritical for people to praise OAC for doing something they would have crushed BTC for.
Moh Ahmed not running Canadian championships, not sure if it's injury or if he gets a pass.
BTC would have run an intersquad time trial with no cameras or documentation of it occurring.
Seriously, has that EVER happened. They at least skyways livestream their events that happened during Covid. I’m as much a critic as anyone, but don’t make things up to suit your stance. It’s lazy and cheapens an argument.
If there were no cameras or documentation of it occurring then we would never know if it happened. Toupee fallacy.
Yeah I agree. I have no love for BTC, particularly after their handling of Shelby, but feels pretty hypocritical for people to praise OAC for doing something they would have crushed BTC for.
This scenario is different. Klecker and Monson already made the team in the 10000. Their coach said in advance that they thought a truly fast 5000 would be more useful than a tactical race at nationals in an event they weren’t going to run at Worlds. As someone else said, a diamond league is a little different than a BTC time trial.
This. It’s not comparable to skipping indoors for a team time trial - Joe Klecker already punched his ticket to Worlds as opposed to skipping it.
This has already been explained to you multiple times so I’m not going to bother. And again, you personally have ZERO room to talk here because you already gave Fisher a free pass to skip World Indoors.
As someone who actually watches and enjoys the Diamond League, I’m happy with Klecker’s decision. I’d rather see our guys mix it up on the circuit with the rest of the world than stay home and only race each other.
As I have explained many times, I am playing devil's advocate here. Sometimes athletes will choose what is best for them and not what is best for the fans. This is totally fine in my opinion, but many on this board have a problem with it.
That being said, I personally (as a fan) would rather see Klecker run USAs as opposed to a 2nd rate diamond league in Oslo. But maybe you don't care for the USAs. Fine.
Yeah, you started “playing devil’s advocate” after whining about how unfairly BTC is treated and then getting downvoted because your take was terrible. Most people think that their lack of racing is a problem. You can defend the way they do things all day long but don’t try to veil your obvious bias with this “athletes need to do what’s best for them” nonsense. If the the rest of the world emulated BTC’s model there would be nothing left to watch.
How is running at a DL meet somehow worse for the fans than running a 2nd event at USAs? Maybe you only care about domestic meets and outdoor global finals?
As I have explained many times, I am playing devil's advocate here. Sometimes athletes will choose what is best for them and not what is best for the fans. This is totally fine in my opinion, but many on this board have a problem with it.
That being said, I personally (as a fan) would rather see Klecker run USAs as opposed to a 2nd rate diamond league in Oslo. But maybe you don't care for the USAs. Fine.
Yeah, you started “playing devil’s advocate” after whining about how unfairly BTC is treated and then getting downvoted because your take was terrible. Most people think that their lack of racing is a problem. You can defend the way they do things all day long but don’t try to veil your obvious bias with this “athletes need to do what’s best for them” nonsense. If the the rest of the world emulated BTC’s model there would be nothing left to watch.
How is running at a DL meet somehow worse for the fans than running a 2nd event at USAs? Maybe you only care about domestic meets and outdoor global finals?
Ok cool, you'd rather watch Klecker run the Oslo diamond league than the USA 5k champs. We all have preferences.
Yeah, you started “playing devil’s advocate” after whining about how unfairly BTC is treated and then getting downvoted because your take was terrible. Most people think that their lack of racing is a problem. You can defend the way they do things all day long but don’t try to veil your obvious bias with this “athletes need to do what’s best for them” nonsense. If the the rest of the world emulated BTC’s model there would be nothing left to watch.
How is running at a DL meet somehow worse for the fans than running a 2nd event at USAs? Maybe you only care about domestic meets and outdoor global finals?
I don't hate BTC or anything, but can we agree that the handling of Woody, Marc Scott and even Fisher from April on is a bit tough for fans? Hopefully the US guys are unleashed somewhat following the Olympics. Scott has Commonwealth Games and European Champs so I'd doubt it.
Fisher's outdoors after that 10K AR: 10K champs 1500 at a B-level meet in Portland Track Festival
Woody's outdoors after pacing the 10K AR: 10K DNF B heat 5000 at Portland Track Festival so he can have a kicking battle with Marc Scott Too hurt for Pre (maybe?)
Marc Scott outdoors: 9th place in B heat 1500 at Pre Classic, which was for guys chasing the standard or who couldn't get into the proper meet (Scott could've run in the DL 5K undoubtedly) B heat 5000 at Portland Track Festival so he can have a kicking battle with Marc Scott
Now this isn't to say this is a BTC problem only. The Hocker/Teare duo really only has the Bowerman mile and then their own time trials. Elle Purrier has Pre and that's it. Ditto Sinclaire Johnson and well she's got an 800 too. Paul Chelimo has just 2 races (though they were both legit with Kip Keino 1500 and Pre 5000). Josh Kerr - 2 races, just 1 particularly legit. Moh Ahmed notably has an admirable schedule with 2 DL 5Ks and he's BTC.
But Ritz at least is racing his team in interesting spots. I admire it, and hope other athletes/teams take notice.
Yeah, you started “playing devil’s advocate” after whining about how unfairly BTC is treated and then getting downvoted because your take was terrible. Most people think that their lack of racing is a problem. You can defend the way they do things all day long but don’t try to veil your obvious bias with this “athletes need to do what’s best for them” nonsense. If the the rest of the world emulated BTC’s model there would be nothing left to watch.
How is running at a DL meet somehow worse for the fans than running a 2nd event at USAs? Maybe you only care about domestic meets and outdoor global finals?
I don't hate BTC or anything, but can we agree that the handling of Woody, Marc Scott and even Fisher from April on is a bit tough for fans? Hopefully the US guys are unleashed somewhat following the Olympics. Scott has Commonwealth Games and European Champs so I'd doubt it.
Fisher's outdoors after that 10K AR: 10K champs 1500 at a B-level meet in Portland Track Festival
Woody's outdoors after pacing the 10K AR: 10K DNF B heat 5000 at Portland Track Festival so he can have a kicking battle with Marc Scott Too hurt for Pre (maybe?)
Marc Scott outdoors: 9th place in B heat 1500 at Pre Classic, which was for guys chasing the standard or who couldn't get into the proper meet (Scott could've run in the DL 5K undoubtedly) B heat 5000 at Portland Track Festival so he can have a kicking battle with Marc Scott
Now this isn't to say this is a BTC problem only. The Hocker/Teare duo really only has the Bowerman mile and then their own time trials. Elle Purrier has Pre and that's it. Ditto Sinclaire Johnson and well she's got an 800 too. Paul Chelimo has just 2 races (though they were both legit with Kip Keino 1500 and Pre 5000). Josh Kerr - 2 races, just 1 particularly legit. Moh Ahmed notably has an admirable schedule with 2 DL 5Ks and he's BTC.
But Ritz at least is racing his team in interesting spots. I admire it, and hope other athletes/teams take notice.
It's interesting because after this weekend Klecker and Fisher will have raced the same number of times outdoors this year.
Right, because staying with BTC means he doesn't have "principles". It's that black and white, isn't it? Either you have principles or you don't. Got it. Let the whipping continue.
It means he doesn't have principles aligned with proponents of clean sport. It doesn't mean that he doesn't have other principles.
Yeah, you started “playing devil’s advocate” after whining about how unfairly BTC is treated and then getting downvoted because your take was terrible. Most people think that their lack of racing is a problem. You can defend the way they do things all day long but don’t try to veil your obvious bias with this “athletes need to do what’s best for them” nonsense. If the the rest of the world emulated BTC’s model there would be nothing left to watch.
How is running at a DL meet somehow worse for the fans than running a 2nd event at USAs? Maybe you only care about domestic meets and outdoor global finals?
I don't hate BTC or anything, but can we agree that the handling of Woody, Marc Scott and even Fisher from April on is a bit tough for fans? Hopefully the US guys are unleashed somewhat following the Olympics. Scott has Commonwealth Games and European Champs so I'd doubt it.
Fisher's outdoors after that 10K AR: 10K champs 1500 at a B-level meet in Portland Track Festival
Woody's outdoors after pacing the 10K AR: 10K DNF B heat 5000 at Portland Track Festival so he can have a kicking battle with Marc Scott Too hurt for Pre (maybe?)
Marc Scott outdoors: 9th place in B heat 1500 at Pre Classic, which was for guys chasing the standard or who couldn't get into the proper meet (Scott could've run in the DL 5K undoubtedly) B heat 5000 at Portland Track Festival so he can have a kicking battle with Marc Scott
Now this isn't to say this is a BTC problem only. The Hocker/Teare duo really only has the Bowerman mile and then their own time trials. Elle Purrier has Pre and that's it. Ditto Sinclaire Johnson and well she's got an 800 too. Paul Chelimo has just 2 races (though they were both legit with Kip Keino 1500 and Pre 5000). Josh Kerr - 2 races, just 1 particularly legit. Moh Ahmed notably has an admirable schedule with 2 DL 5Ks and he's BTC.
But Ritz at least is racing his team in interesting spots. I admire it, and hope other athletes/teams take notice.
I’m definitely in the hater camp, but that’s more so because of how the team is operated. I like a lot of the individual athletes well enough. The doping stuff is funny but doesn’t really bother me as I think most athletes at the elite level are probably on PEDs (unpopular opinion here, I know).
Totally agree with your post. In my estimation, no team wastes their talent quite like BTC does. Fisher is a multiple AR holder and the 7th fastest 10k runner of all time. Scott is a recent world medalist. Kincaid has a faster 5k pr than Rupp. It’s a crying shame that we don’t get to see these guys race more against better fields.
Right, because staying with BTC means he doesn't have "principles". It's that black and white, isn't it? Either you have principles or you don't. Got it. Let the whipping continue.
It means he doesn't have principles aligned with proponents of clean sport. It doesn't mean that he doesn't have other principles.
Which specific principles is he violating? You know you can report specific infractions yourself to the relevant agencies. You are not the arbiter of the principles of clean sport.
As I have explained many times, I am playing devil's advocate here.
Or, to put it another way, you're pretending to be mad about something you're not mad about it because you're mad that some other people were mad about something else that you weren't mad about.
The problem is that the two situations are different. Klecker is dropping a secondary event in order to prepare for an impending World Championships in his main event, which he has already qualified for. Fisher dropped his main (indoor) event in order to skip the World Championships entirely.
Personally, like you, I'm 100% in favor of supporting athletes to make whatever decisions they feel maximize their chances of ultimate success. Like you, I defend Fisher's race-planning decisions and understand his rationale. But you're just making an ass of yourself by pretending that Klecker's decision and the response to it proves some double-standard.
As I have explained many times, I am playing devil's advocate here.
Or, to put it another way, you're pretending to be mad about something you're not mad about it because you're mad that some other people were mad about something else that you weren't mad about.
The problem is that the two situations are different. Klecker is dropping a secondary event in order to prepare for an impending World Championships in his main event, which he has already qualified for. Fisher dropped his main (indoor) event in order to skip the World Championships entirely.
Personally, like you, I'm 100% in favor of supporting athletes to make whatever decisions they feel maximize their chances of ultimate success. Like you, I defend Fisher's race-planning decisions and understand his rationale. But you're just making an ass of yourself by pretending that Klecker's decision and the response to it proves some double-standard.
Every situation is different. There are similarities however. Klecker made a decision that "worse for the sport" but better for himself. Same with Fisher.
Or, to put it another way, you're pretending to be mad about something you're not mad about it because you're mad that some other people were mad about something else that you weren't mad about.
The problem is that the two situations are different. Klecker is dropping a secondary event in order to prepare for an impending World Championships in his main event, which he has already qualified for. Fisher dropped his main (indoor) event in order to skip the World Championships entirely.
Personally, like you, I'm 100% in favor of supporting athletes to make whatever decisions they feel maximize their chances of ultimate success. Like you, I defend Fisher's race-planning decisions and understand his rationale. But you're just making an ass of yourself by pretending that Klecker's decision and the response to it proves some double-standard.
Every situation is different. There are similarities however. Klecker made a decision that "worse for the sport" but better for himself. Same with Fisher.
People have asked you to justify this claim multiple times and so far you have ignored all requests to do so. Please explain how Klecker choosing to run in Oslo instead of running a 2nd event at USAs is worse for the sport.
Every situation is different. There are similarities however. Klecker made a decision that "worse for the sport" but better for himself. Same with Fisher.
People have asked you to justify this claim multiple times and so far you have ignored all requests to do so. Please explain how Klecker choosing to run in Oslo instead of running a 2nd event at USAs is worse for the sport.
I didn't think it needed explaining. I (and I assume most American track fans) would rather see a more competitive 5k championships than to watch one of the favorites for the title run the SAME EVENT a week earlier in Oslo against a watered down field. Am I crazy here???
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