Max MF Burgin 1:43.53 FTW huge PB at Paavo Nurmi Games

You are ruining perfectly good threads with your repetitive "opinion".

Armstronglivs, it is fair to assume that many are doping, but just say it once per thread. Stop ruining the boards. As soon as you and the other character, your opponent, appear, the thread is ruined, because from that point on it is you and him quoting each other (totally unnecessary because the posts are all already on the thread) with longer and longer nested quotations claiming doping or not doping over and over, none of which is on topic. Keep it to once per thread and stick.to.the.point.

Any follower of top level sport knows that doping is involved.

To bring this issue into this thread, when there is not a single special evidence, that Burgin is one of the dopers, is just a terrible attitude, Army.

What a loser you are.

I think Nijel was young, just not 18. He came from a different situation than the Kenyans, who have to be absolutely stellar to get foreign competitions, so they need to train for years with groups to make it there and are likelier to be age cheats for that reason that it helps to get out. Nijel, however, was probably 20-21 in 2012. He is really an outlier here because he held it together for ten years, running that 1:41.89 so much later and not doing it again just because of an injury in that race. Note that two Kenyans on the list ever ran faster. Brazier did as well and his birth date is well documented. You will almost always get continued improvement from U20 male athletes. The doping, by the way, would not be why others wouldn't continue to improve, because the doping wouldn't likely stop at 20. They essentially have to peak to make foreign competition because the Kenyan comp is so good.

How is it the UK vs. Kenya this year in the 800m? Watch out for that Moroccan guy who almost stole Wanyonyi's victory recently, plus the Moroccan who just won NCAA's and has run 1:43 high (Zahafi?), and watch out for the Americans! Murphy looked very good in Puerto Rico. Brazier ran well indoors and will be a gold medal threat if healthy. Hoppel and Harris are possibilities, and we know that Hoppel has run low 1:43 before. The Americans alone have three guys who have run faster than Burgin's breakthrough race. Should be fun.

Steve Cram run 1:42:88 in the 800m in two magic weeks the summer of 1985. As well as a mile record that stands in Europe from that time.

From 1:47.27 PB in 1984, he did big jump in 1:42 in 1982, never replicating it later.

Steve Cram explanation:

The poor show, says Cram, has to do with the new generation of athletes not putting in the kind of hard work required to become champions. "It's sad that we (Britain) haven't been able to replace athletes like Colin Jackson (hurdles) and Steve Backley (javelin)," he added.

Source

archive.indianexpress.com

Real drug culprits are never caught: Steve Cram - Indian Express

Steve Cram, who ran in the footsteps of his more illustrious predecessors Sebastian Coe and Steve Ovett brings to mind the

Open link

"From 1:47.27 PB in 1984, he did big jump in 1:42 in 1985, never replicating it later."

Evidently you will never find big threads about this in LRC.

Most of the repetition has arisen from the indignant chorus in response to my post in which I said doping cannot be ruled out of the conversation - for any top athlete.

The reported data is that the numbers of doped athletes greatly exceeds the numbers caught (some estimates are that it is at least 1 in 2 championship athletes) and that the practice permeates top-level sport in all countries. However unpalatable it is to acknowledge this, it means the chances of any top athlete doping will be high. It doesn't need "special evidence", as you suggest, to speculate that any athlete may be doping; the evidence is that it is throughout the sport. If this were not so I would suggest the times and performances discussed on these threads would be markedly less than what they often are.

That is a fair enough comment. Most of my responses have been to those who chose to make it personal, while also insisting the issue shouldn't be raised on this thread. It isn't excluded on any running thread; that is the board's stated policy.

I think he was talking about as far as the Commonwealth Games in particular. The first guy you reference is Algerian (Moula). I’d put him, Wanyonyi, Burgin and Zahafi at a level above but I think many of the top guys haven’t shown their cards. We’ll see at USAs some of that.