I take it you haven't actually bothered to look at the Doha programme. What race should Fisher have run there? Assuming he hasn't yet learned to steeple, his only option would have been the 1,500, where he's not really world-class, and where there's a grand total of one European entered. Fontes is from Spain, a ~6-hour direct flight to Doha. For Fisher, the absolute best-case scenario to Doha is 17-hour multi-leg flight, with most flights being more than 20 hours. You can call this an "excuse," but most of us -- even those of us who'd like to see the Bowerman guys racing more -- would see it as a rational decision.
The same thing goes for the OP railing about Fisher skipping Pre, without understanding that he needed to run US Trials the night before. Sometimes what looks like bad decisions from a distance are actually completely understandable decisions when you have all the relevant information.
That doesn't mean you have to agree with all their decisions. But I do think there's a flaw with the idea that "Wow, he's running 12:53 and 26:33 in these low-key meets, he should go barnstorm around Europe and throw down every weekend." Maybe one of the reasons he has run 12:53 and 26:33 (unlike any other American in history) is that he's not barnstorming around Europe and throwing down every weekend. Sometimes you have to choose.
Fisher hasn't done anything egregious this year. He chose records over World Indoors this year...and it's fine. What the true test will be is if after making the US Team, how many Diamond Leagues will he do? If the answer is 1 or fewer, that's pretty lame. It's an early Worlds and even if he's conservative before...afterwards, he should be racing.
I agree 100%. Criticism over his racing schedule this year so far is stupid, considering he won the deepest 5,000m race of the year so far and then broke the 10k AR. People criticizing him for not going to Doha (For a 1500) or running Pre 5,000 (Literally running 10k trials) are so dumb.
If he doesn't run Diamond League post World Champs, then I agree he should be open to plenty of criticism.
Agree with your sentiments on Paul Chelimo. Outside of Hocker, no one can close like Chelimo. His Sliver and Bronze in the 5k cements him as an all time great. Until another US runner beats him he is the man.
My revised BEST US MD runner list (3K - 5K)
1) Paul Chelimo 2) Grant Fisher 3) Cooper Teare 4) Cole Hocker
Agree with your sentiments on Paul Chelimo. Outside of Hocker, no one can close like Chelimo. His Sliver and Bronze in the 5k cements him as an all time great. Until another US runner beats him he is the man.
My revised BEST US MD runner list (3K - 5K)
1) Paul Chelimo 2) Grant Fisher 3) Cooper Teare 4) Cole Hocker
Chelimo deserves more respect at the 5,000 for sure. Until Fisher beats at USAs and Worlds, he's the #1 regardless of PBs.
At 10,000, Woody is the defending US Champ and it feels like Fisher has surpassed him even from Woody overruling Jerry to pace him in that AR. We'll see if that holds up in a domestic championship race. No offense to Klecker, Mantz and Lomong on different ends of the spectrum, but not seeing it.
Not that "barnstorming around in Europe" is what I proposing at all, but better runners are running in far more meets, so this is a moot point.
Anyways, Its a shame that Fisher have to peak for a meet to be selected for worlds when in reality he has no competition for his place. It would be great for the American audience to see their best meet the worlds best outside the olympics and worlds.
This year after the Championships, there is Monaco, Brussels and Zurich all running the 3k/5k. I'd like to see Fisher in every single one of those and really at least 2 (he'll need to perform well to get in the DL Final).
This is his most likely schedule after worlds, assuming he makes the US team for worlds and he gets invited to DL. Remember, DL is by invitation. However, one would have to think Fisher will be invited to these meets.
We should be wishing him the very best (health and fitness) as too for many other fine talents in US distance running so they can get through the trials process, make team USA, and head to Europe for meets in the summer.
Huge fan of Grant but I hate the way BTC operates. If everyone else raced as infrequently as they do the sport would be dead.
The control freak coach is afraid of big meets and that's the reason they avoid them.
Interesting since I think a better critique would be that he in overly focused on big meets (USAs, Worlds...), and will do nothing that could potentially jeopardize success in getting to those championship meets, real or imagined.
Interesting since I think a better critique would be that he in overly focused on big meets (USAs, Worlds...), and will do nothing that could potentially jeopardize success in getting to those championship meets, real or imagined.
Yes, this is correct. I looked at 2018, and after USAs he let his athletes race a bunch in Europe afterwards by Jerry standards (3-4 times). Hope that is the case this year.
Fisher has massive talent but Schumacher is doing him dirty by keeping him in the US and running TTs. He can't progress running on the US circuit as they aren't races for him, such is his talent compared to everyone else. He needs races against fields that are in his league. He stated in interviews after his 26:33 that his biggest challenge at the Olympics was the yo-yoing pace, Elise Cranny said exactly the same thing. You don't learn how to deal with that by crushing domestic fields and running TTs on high school tracks. Fisher and Cranny need to get into DL races, learn how to race when the pace varies, and also get experience of the physicality that East African elites bring to races. My prediction: if Fisher doesn't leave the US to race before the World Champs, he will finish 5th/6th in a time that is well inside his talent level
Has any LRer been around the BTC to know if Schumacher has such iron fisted control over his athletes. Professional athletes in individual sports typically have a lot of say about when and where they compete.
Interesting since I think a better critique would be that he in overly focused on big meets (USAs, Worlds...), and will do nothing that could potentially jeopardize success in getting to those championship meets, real or imagined.
Yes, this is correct. I looked at 2018, and after USAs he let his athletes race a bunch in Europe afterwards by Jerry standards (3-4 times). Hope that is the case this year.
For sure.
and for sure, 2020 and 2021 were different years due to Covid.
those years, Fisher was growing his wings. He did go to Europe after the Olympics race a bit and shut it down. He probably wasn’t feeling it. Doubling for USA’s and at the Olympics took a toll. Heck he had to manage injury after the 10k and didn’t know if he could even race the 5k.
Fans and detractors need to cut some slack towards our great young athletes.
Fisher has massive talent but Schumacher is doing him dirty by keeping him in the US and running TTs. He can't progress running on the US circuit as they aren't races for him, such is his talent compared to everyone else. He needs races against fields that are in his league. He stated in interviews after his 26:33 that his biggest challenge at the Olympics was the yo-yoing pace, Elise Cranny said exactly the same thing. You don't learn how to deal with that by crushing domestic fields and running TTs on high school tracks. Fisher and Cranny need to get into DL races, learn how to race when the pace varies, and also get experience of the physicality that East African elites bring to races. My prediction: if Fisher doesn't leave the US to race before the World Champs, he will finish 5th/6th in a time that is well inside his talent level
Has any LRer been around the BTC to know if Schumacher has such iron fisted control over his athletes.
My understanding is that Alberto was the one who iron fisted.
Fisher has massive talent but Schumacher is doing him dirty by keeping him in the US and running TTs. He can't progress running on the US circuit as they aren't races for him, such is his talent compared to everyone else. He needs races against fields that are in his league. He stated in interviews after his 26:33 that his biggest challenge at the Olympics was the yo-yoing pace, Elise Cranny said exactly the same thing. You don't learn how to deal with that by crushing domestic fields and running TTs on high school tracks. Fisher and Cranny need to get into DL races, learn how to race when the pace varies, and also get experience of the physicality that East African elites bring to races. My prediction: if Fisher doesn't leave the US to race before the World Champs, he will finish 5th/6th in a time that is well inside his talent level
Has any LRer been around the BTC to know if Schumacher has such iron fisted control over his athletes. Professional athletes in individual sports typically have a lot of say about when and where they compete.
Fisher speaks a bit about it on an episode of the podcast he co-hosts. Jerry seems to exert a fair amount of control, but offers them choices. I think it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh0a1N5lEkA ('"Sixty-Four point" // Grant recaps 26:33'), but it might be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O14JS4tFXgc ("World Indoors, the Shifting Bowerman Team Mindset, and How To Package Track & Field"). I don't really want to fast-forward to find the timestamps, but if you find it then post about it. These episodes actually contain a lot of interesting info on multiple topics discussed in this thread. Including info on what Fisher's mindset, and to a lesser extent Jerry's, actually is, and the incentives that they're forced to respond to concerning race selection & frequency.
"I agree with the general sentiment of needing more races with marquee athletes facing off"
Jerry is taking care of his athlete by managing his schedule and making sure he has the best shot for a medal at Worlds.
How is this different than Frank Vogel resting LeBron James for the playoffs by having him skip games (not playing the full 82) during the season?
It may make complete sense from a business standpoint but it totally sucks for the fans. Who would not want to see a 3K indoor between Grant Fisher, Cooper Teare and Cole Hocker? The three best American MD runners. Have they ever raced together?
What makes this frustrating is that Grant is in 26:33 shape. Never has an American been this fast or had times at 5K and 10K that are comparable with the East Africans.
I guess we will have to wait.
It seems like you have the reading comprehension of a child.
What point are you trying to make here?? Did you even read the rest of my post?
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