I'm going to say something and I'm not an Ethiopian and Ethiopia (leftish African country) is classically politically in the opposite clan to my country.
Ethiopia with equal material conditions has the potential to provide x5 better runners than Nick Willis and Josh Kerr by year.
I'm going to say something and I'm not an Ethiopian and Ethiopia (leftish African country) is classically politically in the opposite clan to my country.
Ethiopia with equal material conditions has the potential to provide x5 better runners than Nick Willis and Josh Kerr by year.
Ethiopia with equal material conditions would imply :
1/ That Ethiopia had reached Western levels of transparency and lack of corruption, and therefore rigerous and advanced anti-doping testing.
2/ Obesity levels similar to the West.
Just one of those two things would likely mean no Ethiopian ever breaking 3:40 for the 1500m again.
Or to look at it another way, as I have many times here.
Josh Kerr is not built to be any type of runner, except perhaps a 100m guy. His brother is an 18 stone international rugby player. For every Josh Kerr who enters track, there are probably 99 who choose other sports.
Compare with Ethiopia, where 99% of any young athletically gifted person will pursue running as a professional career if they can, as that is the only sport that Ethiopia has apparently any capacity to perform at a professional level at.
I would say that if the population of Europe, Australasia, and the USA all channeled their best young athletes into 1500 - marathon running, as do Kenya and Ethiopia, then the 1500m world record would be 3:23 (clean) and 99% of elite runners would come from Europe the USA, and Australasia. Give them all EPO on every High Street pharmacy with no random testing, and the WR would be 3:18 and 99.9% of elite runners would be Western.
You forget an important thin: your countries have eaten too much in the past (the time of the graces cows!). You see this guy Elon Must. Is it a hazard that he is linked to England and America? the first country known to be The empire on which the sun never sets.
Elon Must can buy the whole Africa if he want to...
Now the nature like equilibrium and hate the void. People must pay the counter part.
Thank you! Reading this actually gets me to question further whether or not Cierpinski really doped. Nothing in that article mentions anything about doping distance runners. They were mostly using steroids and in the 70's we all knew those were being used but didn't believe they were used on distance runners. The idea was that those drugs bulked you up, added weight, and actually slowed you down. The article mentions that most of the DDR swimmers who won gold medals and all of the throwers who did were in the doping program. Weight lifters get mentioned. So do sprinters. But unless I really missed something there's not a word about doping distance runners.
I know Shorter has said for many years that he's seen Cierpinski's name on the list of doped athletes. But as far as I can tell he's never made that list available to the general viewer. Maybe there's something that prevents him from doing so but it seems we're left to take him at his word here. If he's not going to make the list available I wish he'd at least say why he won't or can't.
C'mon man...male distance runners use anabolic steroids & testosterone. Steroids & T used in large doses(in conjunction with a high-protein diet) will bulk you up adding tremendous size & strength (think throwers, weight lifters, bodybuilders, etc).
Endurance athletes use very small doses which aides in recovery from hard workouts & races, builds strength in the legs, helps burn bodyfat & even raises hematocrit levels.
Go look at Wikipedia's list of doping suspensions for IAA/IOC athletes. You'll see numerous male distance runners who tested positive for steroids or T. And what famous German 5000m runner with sub-13 PR tested positive for the anabolic steroid nandrolonoe? 🤔
Recently yes, male distance runners have used anabolic steroids.The idea seems to be they make your muscles bigger and allow you to train harder. But in the 70's if someone had offered steroids to any of us we'd have turned him down because we thought they'd bulk you up and slow you down. Maybe the East Germans thought otherwise and gave steroids to their distance people. But that article mentions weight lifting, swimming, throws, and sprinters being in the program. It says all of their sprint gold medals went to athletes in the doping program. It does not mention, unless I missed it, jumpers, distance runners, or race walkers. So maybe the DDR doping scientists in those days thought the same thing all the distance runners I knew or knew of at the time did and kept steroids away from endurance runners.
C'mon man...male distance runners use anabolic steroids & testosterone. Steroids & T used in large doses(in conjunction with a high-protein diet) will bulk you up adding tremendous size & strength (think throwers, weight lifters, bodybuilders, etc).
Endurance athletes use very small doses which aides in recovery from hard workouts & races, builds strength in the legs, helps burn bodyfat & even raises hematocrit levels.
Go look at Wikipedia's list of doping suspensions for IAA/IOC athletes. You'll see numerous male distance runners who tested positive for steroids or T. And what famous German 5000m runner with sub-13 PR tested positive for the anabolic steroid nandrolonoe? 🤔
Recently yes, male distance runners have used anabolic steroids.The idea seems to be they make your muscles bigger and allow you to train harder. But in the 70's if someone had offered steroids to any of us we'd have turned him down because we thought they'd bulk you up and slow you down. Maybe the East Germans thought otherwise and gave steroids to their distance people. But that article mentions weight lifting, swimming, throws, and sprinters being in the program. It says all of their sprint gold medals went to athletes in the doping program. It does not mention, unless I missed it, jumpers, distance runners, or race walkers. So maybe the DDR doping scientists in those days thought the same thing all the distance runners I knew or knew of at the time did and kept steroids away from endurance runners.
The evidence suggests otherwise: Finland's Martti Vainio tested positive for steroids at the 1984 Olympics 10,000m final.
He said he was shocked by the positive test because he thought he was only using testosterone. Lol. He's also the bronze medalist from the 83 WC & gold medalist from the 78 EC.
If the Finns were using androgens with their distance runners, don't you think other countries would also be using them with some of their world-class runners?
Martti Olavi Vainio (born 30 December 1950) is a Finnish former long-distance runner. In Finland he is recognized as the last of the great runners of the famous "V-line", the previous ones being Juha Väätäinen, Lasse Virén, a...
If the Finns were using androgens with their distance runners, don't you think other countries would also be using them with some of their world-class runners?
It is possible that they were. I'll say that 1984 was not 1976 and maybe by then people were finding that steroids were useful for distance runners after all. Yes, that's pushing the point. I know people suspect Kuts was using them in the 50's. But that's never been confirmed.
Going back to that article though, it's interests me that they mention that ALL of their sprinters with gold medals were in the program. Why only mention those and not say all of their distance running gold medals came from someone in the program too? And saying that MOST of their swimming golds came from swimmers in the doping program means that at least one gold medal came from someone not in the doping program. So it seems there were DDR athletes who were not in that program who were very successful.
You forget an important thin: your countries have eaten too much in the past (the time of the graces cows!). You see this guy Elon Must. Is it a hazard that he is linked to England and America? the first country known to be The empire on which the sun never sets.
Elon Must can buy the whole Africa if he want to...
Now the nature like equilibrium and hate the void. People must pay the counter part.
I'm going to say something and I'm not an Ethiopian and Ethiopia (leftish African country) is classically politically in the opposite clan to my country.
Ethiopia with equal material conditions has the potential to provide x5 better runners than Nick Willis and Josh Kerr by year.
Ethiopia with equal material conditions would imply :
1/ That Ethiopia had reached Western levels of transparency and lack of corruption, and therefore rigerous and advanced anti-doping testing.
2/ Obesity levels similar to the West.
Just one of those two things would likely mean no Ethiopian ever breaking 3:40 for the 1500m again.
Why don't you ask your racist Moroccan ultra-nationalist to explain this first?
You forget an important thin: your countries have eaten too much in the past (the time of the graces cows!). You see this guy Elon Must. Is it a hazard that he is linked to England and America? the first country known to be The empire on which the sun never sets. Elon Must can buy the whole Africa if he want to... Now the nature like equilibrium and hate the void. People must pay the counter part.
OK, you don't have any explanation for what you have written.
Why don't you ask your racist Moroccan ultra-nationalist to explain this first?
You forget an important thin: your countries have eaten too much in the past (the time of the graces cows!). You see this guy Elon Must. Is it a hazard that he is linked to England and America? the first country known to be The empire on which the sun never sets. Elon Must can buy the whole Africa if he want to... Now the nature like equilibrium and hate the void. People must pay the counter part.
Here is a rare document dating from 1693 talking about the Moroccan Empire and the Ambassador of London in it. Find me a single country in Africa or the middle East that have such history.
Maybe the ambassador was trying to arrange the release or return of the 1.25 million enslaved European children and young women kidnapped in Morocco? Has your country ever apologized for the Barbary slave trade?
The Barbary slave trade involved slave markets on the Barbary Coast of North Africa, which included the Ottoman states of Algeria, Tunisia and Tripolitania and the independent sultanate of Morocco, between the 16th and 19th c...
You need to put a caveat there that the estimate of 1.25 million enslaved Europeans (you say children and young women, but that is not what the author said) is based on a very iffy measurement, that they had to replace 1/4 of the slaves every year to keep the slave population stable. If slaves survived eight years, then the actual range he claimed would be 500,000 to 612,500. He acknowledges there were no good records. So, the total is complete guesswork.
Editor's note (3/21/20): For an update on this story, visit: Why is a 16-year-old book on slavery so popular now? A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa betwee...
Or to look at it another way, as I have many times here.
Josh Kerr is not built to be any type of runner, except perhaps a 100m guy. His brother is an 18 stone international rugby player. For every Josh Kerr who enters track, there are probably 99 who choose other sports.
Compare with Ethiopia, where 99% of any young athletically gifted person will pursue running as a professional career if they can, as that is the only sport that Ethiopia has apparently any capacity to perform at a professional level at.
I would say that if the population of Europe, Australasia, and the USA all channeled their best young athletes into 1500 - marathon running, as do Kenya and Ethiopia, then the 1500m world record would be 3:23 (clean) and 99% of elite runners would come from Europe the USA, and Australasia. Give them all EPO on every High Street pharmacy with no random testing, and the WR would be 3:18 and 99.9% of elite runners would be Western.
What utter rubbish. Only about 10% of Kenyan kids are channeled into running at school. An overwhelming majority take up far more popular sports like football, rugby, hockey and basketball. And if a kid the grades to get to university and pursue a professional career, they'll prioritise that over athletics.
I said 99% of athletically gifted kids (and for Ethiopia - maybe slightly less for Kenya which does do a few other international sports at a decent level by African standards).
The point about the sprinter is not really relevant - being a sprinter - but if anything it proves my point. He chose sprinting over rugby because there is no route to becoming a professional rugby player in Kenya. In the UK, Australia, New Zealand etc, I'd guess that 95% at least of young athletes equally talented in rugby and track would choose rugby.
The elite British sprinter Adam Gemeli was a moderately talented footballer. He was offered a contract by a non-league side, and apparently it tore his hair out trying to decide whether to choose that or represent his country at his home London Olympics.
BTW, your parrotted line that football is far more popular than running in Kenya is probably another proof that you have never set foot in Kenya. According to many sites, the most followed football club in Kenya is Gor Mahia, which has an average attendance of just 5,000 per game. The players for the club earn an average of just $600 per month. As far as I know, there are only 3 Kenyans playing professionally in European leagues.
Even if it was true that most Kenyans prefer to play football, there is no way that professional football is creaming off top running talent in any comparable way to it does in GB and Europe.
You need to put a caveat there that the estimate of 1.25 million enslaved Europeans (you say children and young women, but that is not what the author said) is based on a very iffy measurement, that they had to replace 1/4 of the slaves every year to keep the slave population stable. If slaves survived eight years, then the actual range he claimed would be 500,000 to 612,500. He acknowledges there were no good records. So, the total is complete guesswork.
This is what Passant does to a thread - turn a discussion over the injustice of Nick Willis being cheated out of gold by a doped Kenyan and a doped Moroccan (his hero Ramzi) into splitting hairs over the criminally under-acknowledged fact of massive white slavery by the Moroccans.
Have you read the book? How do you know that the author is 'guessing' in his claim that the slave population would need to have replaced 1/4 of its number each year?
It is well known that a sizeable proportion of those slaves were women and young boys favored by the Moroccoans for sex slavery. Captured sex slaves - again women and boys - were also taken to Constantinople for the Ottoman Empire.
Aren't you missing the point somewhat? Passant (appears) to be claiming that Ramzi is the rightful gold medalist because of some kind of 'debt' the West, and in particular for some reason 'Elon Must', owes to Moroccans and the rest of Africa due to the British Empire and slavery.
I'm pointing out that at the same time as Britain was the first country in human history to abolish slavery and chasing American ships that were still conducting it off the seas, his noble country of Morocco was still trading in black African slaves as well as raiding the Spanish coast for white slaves, including little boys for sex slaves - as they had been doing for hundreds of years.
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