2. Karissa Schweizer: No suspicious improvement or body change, but 14:26 in and of itself is suspicious, and there are rumors she still trains with Shelby sometimes. Maybe doping.
Too much tinfoil hat stuff happens on this website, but Schweizer has been notably worse since Houlihan got busted.
This was such a tell for me.
Ms. 14:26, can close in close to 60 not even in the international game at the Olympics.
The thing about Bowerman is that so MANY of their athletes found rarified air. Shelby. Karissa. Elise. Shalane. Courtney. Even Colleen was one of the best when she was there. All came out of college with decent potential to do well on the pro circuit, and none but Shalane were super dominant. But then they get to Bowerman and it's like--boom, explosion. It's happened too many times for that to be a coincidence.
Jerry isn't doing anything secretive with regard to his training. His oodles of miles won't make a runner who can withstand it superhuman. Also there's the question of why some runners can stand all those miles in the first place when others can't.........
nah. She was just celebrating winning her first and only US Title. I do think that that meet caused drama in BTC. She celebrated HARD and didn't hold back. Not on Instagram not in interviews --I think they probably thought she was showboating too hard on a teammate, and kind of reminded the BTC that they are a club, not a team. It's to each her own out there.
Too much tinfoil hat stuff happens on this website, but Schweizer has been notably worse since Houlihan got busted.
This was such a tell for me.
Ms. 14:26, can close in close to 60 not even in the international game at the Olympics.
The thing about Bowerman is that so MANY of their athletes found rarified air. Shelby. Karissa. Elise. Shalane. Courtney. Even Colleen was one of the best when she was there. All came out of college with decent potential to do well on the pro circuit, and none but Shalane were super dominant. But then they get to Bowerman and it's like--boom, explosion. It's happened too many times for that to be a coincidence.
Jerry isn't doing anything secretive with regard to his training. His oodles of miles won't make a runner who can withstand it superhuman. Also there's the question of why some runners can stand all those miles in the first place when others can't.........
Jerry doesn’t make it easy for himself as he declines all interviews and avoids even having his picture taken. He’s arguably the most successful US pro coach right now and he avoids any interaction with the running media. This isn’t good for the sport. Let us know how your athletes are doing, where they are racing and so forth. At least someone like Salazar spoke to the media and accepted interview requests. I can go on Flotrack/Runnerspace/youtube right now and find dozens of videos of Salazar talking shop about racing and training. Hell, he allowed folks to film Rupp and Goucher workouts. Jerry would order the police on someone at Nike campus if they did that.
I have my suspicions of BTC for obvious reasons but Stanford a doping school? Who, what, when, how? This thread is the first I have seen that.
Not that there is systematic doping at Stanford, but they do have a long history of turning a blind eye toward doping, and in particular steroid use. They have actively fought AGAINST more stringent testing of college athletes and they had very close connections with Team USA trainers and coaches during some peak Team USA doping eras. Also, they are in the Bay Area where BALCO was very much a thing. They dominate just about every NCAA Olympic sport, and that doesn’t go without questions. Finally, the smoke with the football team steroid use got so bad during the Jim Harbaugh years, it was rumored to be one of the reasons he jumped to the NFL.
Great photo of Colleen. I remember that race , SH looked shocked after the finish , she couldnt cover the big kick. At least SH didn't pull a Elle P sourpuss show and storm off the track.
Not sure why Schweizer gets a pass. She was absolutely doping to run 14:26. In fact I would say that her whole senior year of college was suspect. It was around that time that she started her Bowerman association, and suddenly she became a record breaking runner. Then within a year of formally joining Bowerman she ran 15:01, a time she never came close to in college.
The excuses made for Schweizer was that she was allegedly a late bloomer, that she allegedly possessed magical genes. I think that is a load of nonsense. One tell with Schweizer is that she came from a competitive running family. As did Houlihan. BTC aside, that likely made them familiar and comfortable with the doping techniques commonly used in the sport. With Schweizer it raises the possibility that her entire college career was a fraud.
Not sure why Schweizer gets a pass. She was absolutely doping to run 14:26. In fact I would say that her whole senior year of college was suspect. It was around that time that she started her Bowerman association, and suddenly she became a record breaking runner. Then within a year of formally joining Bowerman she ran 15:01, a time she never came close to in college.
The excuses made for Schweizer was that she was allegedly a late bloomer, that she allegedly possessed magical genes. I think that is a load of nonsense. One tell with Schweizer is that she came from a competitive running family. As did Houlihan. BTC aside, that likely made them familiar and comfortable with the doping techniques commonly used in the sport. With Schweizer it raises the possibility that her entire college career was a fraud.
Uhhhh... in 2018 she ran 15:19 to win at prelims, then won NCAAs (defending her title from the previous year), comes 3rd at US outdoor champs just two weeks later with a very strong close in a tactical race. Two weeks post champs, so only 4 weeks post NCAAs, she runs 4:06 in the 1500, before running 15:02. She won NCAA XC in 2016 as a junior. She wasn't a late bloomer lol.
I have my suspicions of BTC for obvious reasons but Stanford a doping school? Who, what, when, how? This thread is the first I have seen that.
Agree. This was pulled out of an ass. They've had like five coaches in the last decade anyways, so it's not like they've developed this secret doping pipeline with BALCO 2.0
I have my suspicions of BTC for obvious reasons but Stanford a doping school? Who, what, when, how? This thread is the first I have seen that.
Not that there is systematic doping at Stanford, but they do have a long history of turning a blind eye toward doping, and in particular steroid use. They have actively fought AGAINST more stringent testing of college athletes and they had very close connections with Team USA trainers and coaches during some peak Team USA doping eras. Also, they are in the Bay Area where BALCO was very much a thing. They dominate just about every NCAA Olympic sport, and that doesn’t go without questions. Finally, the smoke with the football team steroid use got so bad during the Jim Harbaugh years, it was rumored to be one of the reasons he jumped to the NFL.
No. Most of the sports Stanford wins NCAA titles in are rich white kid sports like swimming, tennis, water polo, volleyball, and so forth.
Maybe the creepiest thing about this website (which is saying something) is how people refer to male athletes by their last names, but female athletes by their first names - Elise, Vanessa, Shalane. They are not your friends. You have no chance. Clean it up dudes.
Maybe the creepiest thing about this website (which is saying something) is how people refer to male athletes by their last names, but female athletes by their first names - Elise, Vanessa, Shalane. They are not your friends. You have no chance. Clean it up dudes.
Oh get out of here with your sensationalism. The April Fool's Day article was way creepier.
You're commenting on a social phenomenon where men are generally more likely to call other men by their last name. Calling men by their last name likely stems from the military and the male-dominated workforce a few generations ago, but, like, its a thing.
Also, the coolness and ubiquitousness of the name plays a role in whether first name or last name is used. Many posters call Colleen Quigley "Quigley." I'm a man, I'm still going to call Elise Cranny "Cranny." We're all still going to call Evan Jager "Jager" even if he transitions gender (Jager's an awesome surname). Mo Ahmed and Marc Scott will always be referred to by both names because of the ubiquitousness of the surname.
Maybe the creepiest thing about this website (which is saying something) is how people refer to male athletes by their last names, but female athletes by their first names.
If you think that's the creepiest thing about this website then you don't know this website very well.
Not sure why Schweizer gets a pass. She was absolutely doping to run 14:26. In fact I would say that her whole senior year of college was suspect. It was around that time that she started her Bowerman association, and suddenly she became a record breaking runner. Then within a year of formally joining Bowerman she ran 15:01, a time she never came close to in college.
The excuses made for Schweizer was that she was allegedly a late bloomer, that she allegedly possessed magical genes. I think that is a load of nonsense. One tell with Schweizer is that she came from a competitive running family. As did Houlihan. BTC aside, that likely made them familiar and comfortable with the doping techniques commonly used in the sport. With Schweizer it raises the possibility that her entire college career was a fraud.
The ability of posters on this board to just conpletely ignore facts and revise history is wild.
Schweizer “suddenly became a record breaking runner her senior year”
actually:
Junior year won NCAA cross, indoor 5k, outdoor 5k (only event)
senior year: ~10th at NCAA cross, won indoor 5k, tried to race 10k but got 3rd, won the 5k. Got indoor 3k record and 0 others. 10k time was slower than ppl like Anna Rohrer and Erin Finn. 5k slower than aisling cuffe, abby dag’s, marielle hall, whitni orton, katelyn tuohy and others
also the “physical changes” are crap. Cranny has always been muscular since high school, got heavier when injured in college and then leaned out again when she became a professional athlete (sort of follows logic)
bare minimum, they benefitted from having a pacer who was busted for doping.
They definitely are doing grey area stuff and are all on thyroid meds. It is what it is. I’m curious especially how Courtney will do in the upcoming season.
There's more than one issue at play. Issue 1, and the more important one to me - two athletes leaving a pro group because they aren't sure the group is actually following the rules. Issue 2 - that BTC has an employee churn rate so to speak that implies dysfunctionality. Sure, half the women who left were unhappy with their own performances, but Jorgensen aside, Johnson, Infeld, Hall, Grace are all talented track athletes. The first three in particular had no business running some of the awful times they ran in 2021. If one of them ran like trash, you could maybe say "oh that's an athlete problem" - when 1/3 of your roster is blowing up and running times that wouldn't be competitive against some college teams then that's a system problem.
Both issues are summed up nicely by Sinclaire Johnson/Lucia Stafford. Johnson ran 4:03 and came 4th at outdoor champs in 2019 with OSU- yet somehow despite going pro Schumacher had her struggling to break 4:10 sometimes and coming DFL in the trials finals. Schumacher then gets someone with almost identical credentials as Johnson - Lucia Stafford (same age, 2:00/4:02 PRs), and loses her by *failing to mention when he recruited her that oh by the way, I'm coaching a banned athlete* and then when it's raised as an issue, refuses to make any concessions on the issue. That's bottom tier communication skills.
Posters can yap all they want about "divas" and "they sucked" - but the facts remain that in multiple ways it looks like Schumacher has dropped the ball recently. Losing multiple women capable of running 4:03/4:02 coming out of college is *never* part of the plan.
*unrelated question to the rojo/wejo/gault* - you mentioned in another thread that GDS also talked to you guys about Glasgow in her super long interview. The rumours I heard from other people in the Canadian running scene was that when she came back from the UK she was a mess physically; injured, and a bit of skeleton. And that basically her big breakthrough came from Young restricting her diet and overtraining her so she got one big improvement spike but then kinda broke like Konstanze Klosterhalfen or Mary Cain. The only thing she's said publicly is that she found Young quite controlling, but that's not necessarily the same. As a Canadian fan, it was very surprising to see her leave a group where she ran so well.
i think the so many female team members left..there must be something going narrative is incorrect for a few reasons:
1. the lifespan of a pro career is very short ~less than 4 years, so you’re going to see high turnover which is industry wide…take a look at naz elite.
2. Sponsorship contracts are on Olympic cycles they go through the end of an Olympic year, so not uncommon to see athletes not resigned or switch sponsors.
3. if you look at the specific cases of why each athlete left bowerman you can see with the exception of the Stafford sisters it has nothing to do with houlihan
gwen Jorgensen- was no longer with Nike and thus had to continue paying Jerry out of pocket or leave
colleen quickly- purely financial decision she told runners world
“To be brutally honest, the money from Nike just was not there, and I think that was the final straw for me to be like, I deserve more than this,”
mariele hall- looks to have gotten dropped by Nike and was not running very well
kate grace- joined to move up to the 1500m distance, ran 4:01 wasn’t globally competitive and wanted to move down to the 800 where she had no training partners at btc. On record supporting Shelby houlihan
Emily infeld- could no longer stay healthy with Schumacher’s intense training and no longer seems to be with Nike. Also on record supporting houlihan and believe houlihan attended her wedding.
Sinclaire Johnson- wanted a middle distance focused group with no other 800/1500 athlete at btc. Also publicly supported Shelby houlihan
to connect their departures to houlihan is a tad misleading. btc of course seems to only work well for 1500-5k/10k runners and those that can stay healthy which isn’t ideal. also I’m sure having multiple athletes in the same event group compete against each other for 3 spots at trials is also not ideal. I don’t know why you’d want to be in that position if your an athlete.
Then stop doing business with an unethical company.
Pro contracts typically go from Olympics to Olympics. So if they have a legal contract until the next Olympics in 2024, then what? Break their contract right now and get sued?
The question is whether they are contracted to run for BTC or just Nike. Plenty of Nike athletes have their own situation, like Rupp, Mantz, and Grace. The question is whether the BTC athletes could find another coach that suits them and isn't contractually tied to another company. Ritz could easily take on the whole Bowerman group but that obviously isn't an option. It's a moot point anyway, the men in particular don't seem to have any concerns at all about training with Houlihan
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