Say it with me: Cole Hocker's kick is overrated.

LarsL9 wrote:

Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in NCAA and America.

Fixed it for you. Its incredible how people here dont understand the single fact that you have more left in the tank to do a kick when you are racing a bunch of high schoolers in a 3:36 race than when your name is Tim and you are beating Yakob in the Diamond League.

Be a bit more respectful, Hocker should earn it by consistently beating world class runners.

Nobody is saying that Hocker has an incredible kick in DL drag races. They’re saying he’s got a great kick in slow races. Maybe we won’t see those at the international level however with wavelight, rabbits and a host of guys who like going from the gun.

Cole Hocker would take a dump on you in any distance any day of the week. And yeah, national record breaking 3k isn’t even that impressive.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

LarsL9 wrote:

Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in NCAA and America.

Fixed it for you. Its incredible how people here dont understand the single fact that you have more left in the tank to do a kick when you are racing a bunch of high schoolers in a 3:36 race than when your name is Tim and you are beating Yakob in the Diamond League.

Be a bit more respectful, Hocker should earn it by consistently beating world class runners.

Nobody is saying that Hocker has an incredible kick in DL drag races. They’re saying he’s got a great kick in slow races. Maybe we won’t see those at the international level however with wavelight, rabbits and a host of guys who like going from the gun.

He's got a great kick in slow races, but pretty much any <3:31 guy will have that. That's the point of this thread without all the BS, and while the OP does troll a lot, this is a fair take and way too many americans are getting triggered because their top 1500 runner's performances are rightly being put into context.

nooooooo wrote:

He's got a great kick in slow races, but pretty much any <3:31 guy will have that. That's the point of this thread without all the BS, and while the OP does troll a lot, this is a fair take and way too many americans are getting triggered because their top 1500 runner's performances are rightly being put into context.

This is just incorrect though. There’re many sub-3:31 type guys who struggle in tactical 1500s due to their lack of a top-end kick. McSweyn is one of them sure. Augustine Choge is another. Abdelaati Iguider and Ayanleh Souleiman struggled at the end of races. Nixon Chepseba another guy who couldn’t trust his kick.

Also when people discuss Hocker they’re really zoning in on a turn of speed in the last 100 not an all-out sprint the last 300 or 400. Nearly every good 1500m runner can drop a 51-52 off a nothing pace but running 12,2 to 12.4 to close out a moderately paced race is a different skill set.

Thank you for this excellent comment. People use the term kick to broadly to cover everything from winding things up with 400 or even 600 to go to what happens in the last 100 or even less. I’m not sure how to quantify this, but Hocker seems to be able to shift gears very rapidly and accelerate to top speed faster than others. He strikes very suddenly and puts up a rapid acceleration that leaves others a bit flat footed even if they are or could be faster over the last 100 or 200.

We dont know how fast he is,over 100/200 meters.My estimate is he could do it from blocks in 11.2/22.4 which is fast,but not seb coe/donovan brazier/joaqim cruz fast.He has a faster kick than most NCAA 1500 runners.

It's fair to measure all athletes, 800m to 10000m over final 300m. No one in their right mind starts an all out sprint with 400m to go. Some athletes are willing to sprint all out with 300m to go even though some deacceleration over final 75m mostly will occur. Does C. Hocker have a sub-38 final 300m in him if he splits 1200m, (2:57 to 3:03)? Sub-38 final 300m is rare. Only a select few have done it when splitting 1200m, 3 minutes, +/- 3 seconds.

10/10

100% here for this troll energy.

Of course it’s a garbage take, who cares.

Suc A Carlson wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

You are committing the exact same logical fallacy I called out the Hocker fans on. Geordie Beamish is the illusion of speed. He won a slow race against G League runners with bad pacing and a fast 100m split. Against good runners in a race that isnt slow, that kick will be exposed for how lackluster it truly is.

Post your PRs sunshine. Or your coaching vitae. Otherwise……..yawn.

Let’s be very clear that PRs or coaching experience have nothing to do with opinions on a runner’s objective performances. Give me a break.

LarsL9 wrote:

Finance Bro wrote:

Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in the world.

Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in NCAA and America.

Fixed it for you. Its incredible how people here dont understand the single fact that you have more left in the tank to do a kick when you are racing a bunch of high schoolers in a 3:36 race than when your name is Tim and you are beating Yakob in the Diamond League.

Be a bit more respectful, Hocker should earn it by consistently beating world class runners.

Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in the world. There, fixed it back.

Hocker kicked his way into the Olympic final.

hatersgonnahate69 wrote:

Cole Hocker would take a dump on you in any distance any day of the week. And yeah, national record breaking 3k isn’t even that impressive.

If the bar for greatness is set so low as beating me in a distance, then you confirm that Hocker is not worthy the world class comparisons. Tim is in the business of beating Yakob. Yakob is in the business of beating Tim. Hocker is in the business of beating me.

nooooooo wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Nobody is saying that Hocker has an incredible kick in DL drag races. They’re saying he’s got a great kick in slow races. Maybe we won’t see those at the international level however with wavelight, rabbits and a host of guys who like going from the gun.

He's got a great kick in slow races, but pretty much any <3:31 guy will have that. That's the point of this thread without all the BS, and while the OP does troll a lot, this is a fair take and way too many americans are getting triggered because their top 1500 runner's performances are rightly being put into context.

This right here.

Let your runners compete on the world stage over some time before you crown them. Cant wait to see Hocker in a full diamond league season to see if he in fact has a better kick than the worlds best.

jeff tallon wrote:

We dont know how fast he is,over 100/200 meters.My estimate is he could do it from blocks in 11.2/22.4 which is fast,but not seb coe/donovan brazier/joaqim cruz fast.He has a faster kick than most NCAA 1500 runners.

The thing is that speed over 100m doesnt mean anything for a 1500m runner. The kind of acceleration Hocker fans boast about is completely useless for a miler. Under no circumstance should you need or want to shift gears so drastically as a miler. People need to stop changing the subject from 400m splits to 100m splits. 400m splits are significant, 100m splits are not. The only thing a fast 100m split can indicate for a miler is that the race could have been run better. Fast 100m splits only mean you either lose to people you shouldnt or it's closer than it shouldve been because bad pacing ultimately slows you down.

You can downplay Yakob all you want for supposedly not being a good kicker, but what he has is far more valuable than useless acceleration: a great sense of pacing, and you see that in every race he runs.

Bottom line is this. Milers dont need acceleration at all. Praising Hocker for having something that is useless in his discipline is stupid.

It’s so useless that he pretty easily made a 1500 final that many 3:29-3:31 guys coming in did not. Josh Kerr was lucky to survive the first round. Why? Because he didn’t have the shift in gears. Hocker advanced smoothly because of his shifting abilities. The last 100 and shifting abilities can indeed matter. Don’t be fooled because the last 1500m final was multiple guys pushing the pace to neutralize against kickers.

jeff tallon wrote:

We dont know how fast he is,over 100/200 meters.My estimate is he could do it from blocks in 11.2/22.4 which is fast,but not seb coe/donovan brazier/joaqim cruz fast.He has a faster kick than most NCAA 1500 runners.

And pro runners as 12.20 stands up for the last 100 of a 1500 race as has been exhaustively covered in other threads.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

It’s so useless that he pretty easily made a 1500 final that many 3:29-3:31 guys coming in did not. Josh Kerr was lucky to survive the first round. Why? Because he didn’t have the shift in gears. Hocker advanced smoothly because of his shifting abilities. The last 100 and shifting abilities can indeed matter. Don’t be fooled because the last 1500m final was multiple guys pushing the pace to neutralize against kickers.

Lol. If Cole Hocker name would have been Joshua Kiplesang, and his nationality have been Kenyan or Ugandan, no-one here would even bother mentioning him. Hope they give out medals for the best gear shifter at this years WC.

The reality is that he isn't good enough to run 1500 meters to warrant the hype.

LarsL9 wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

It’s so useless that he pretty easily made a 1500 final that many 3:29-3:31 guys coming in did not. Josh Kerr was lucky to survive the first round. Why? Because he didn’t have the shift in gears. Hocker advanced smoothly because of his shifting abilities. The last 100 and shifting abilities can indeed matter. Don’t be fooled because the last 1500m final was multiple guys pushing the pace to neutralize against kickers.

Lol. If Cole Hocker name would have been Joshua Kiplesang, and his nationality have been Kenyan or Ugandan, no-one here would even bother mentioning him. Hope they give out medals for the best gear shifter at this years WC.

The reality is that he isn't good enough to run 1500 meters to warrant the hype.

Just checked the rankings, he is the 85th fastest 1500m runner of all time. For supposedly being world class and a threat to Tim and Jacob, dude is slooooooooooooooooow. While he is switching gears, 84 others are focused on running to the finish line.

Great — another moronic troll. Hocker is 20 years old, and could improve those personal bests. Maybe that hasn't struck you. Perhaps you could also find out where Matt Centrowitz ranks on your list and look up where he ranks on the list of Olympic Gold medalists.

Nobody says Hocker is a threat to the top 2 yet. They say he has a great kick, which he does. Foolish trolls then argue being able to shift gears or hit a very high top end speed is useless, or that kicks don't even matter. Kind of makes you wonder if the only race they've ever watched was the 2021 Olympics 1500m final.