Highschool Cross Country all-stars race by decade Footlocker style, which decade wins?

historical accuracy wrote:

Jonathan Commentor wrote:

bro what? the 2020's have had literally one year for track so far, '21 indoor/outdoor and Hobbs Kessler broke 4 by 3 seconds, not to mention his 3:34 1500... have you been living under a rock??

Forgot about Kessler - my mistake. And undoubtedly the 2020s will have more sub-4 guys, maybe this year, but right now they have one.

Also Leo Daschbach is 2020.

Good points. Perhaps I am wrong. I’ll admit I hadn’t heard of half of those names. I still think the top 10 -12 athletes listed are amongst the top 20 all time even when you add in the other generations.

I think this years track season will be very convincing when we see a lot of kids breaking 8:40 and 4:00 in the mile (which we would have seen in 2020 if the pandemic didn’t take out the season). I predict we will see 7 boys this year break 4:00 and or 8:40 this season for 1 and 2 miles respectively.

historical accuracy wrote:

historical accuracy wrote:

Forgot about Kessler - my mistake. And undoubtedly the 2020s will have more sub-4 guys, maybe this year, but right now they have one.

Also Leo Daschbach is 2020.

Plus Cruz Culpepper 4:00.1 indoors.

Eh I think some of that is the effect of shoe/track/training advancements and the race to find faster and faster XC courses. There was nothing like the Desert Twilight course or RunningLane course back in the day. Hindsight is 20/20 but the proof in my view is that even with a few extra months or all those guys to adjust to college training (since their first XC nationals was in March 21) none of those guys did much aside from Nico and Spout (15th I think) and none have done much since then, either. So I still give the nod to Solinsky. I don’t think the issue is even close with Verzbicas and Ches. Both were clearly better than Nico in HS, and Ches / Zenesellassie were better scalps to take than Sprout, et al.

The issue with your logic here is that . For example Josh Methner broke Virgin's record that Lukas V barely missed. Then never broke 9 in the 3200. or even 4:10. Now when you go back to that California state record all the 2010/2020 runners failed to beat that.

Compared to just the 2010 footlocker field/nxn fields That Lukas beat by 1 second then 15 seconds the following week

Edward Cheserek - ran 8:40 with Lukas a few weeks later

Elias Gedyon- 4:02/8:49 guy that spring and known for speed and strength. Also think he won the USA Junior 1500m over Kirubel Erassa that summer.

Rosa Twins - weren't they like 8:48 and 8:51 guys on the track

Woody Kincaid - sub 13 lol

Ammar Moussa - 14:05 on track to win USA Juniors I believe. Also 8:49

Craig Lutz - won that crazy NXN sprint over Gedyon and Joe Rosa an year prior and 8:52 and a much better xc guy than track.

Futsum Zeinasellasie - Same as Lutz but also 8:47

Billy Orman - 8:48 guy prior to footlocker If I remember correctly

Covid

Methner didn’t break 9 because he didn’t run the 3200 that season because of the pandemic. Methner was elite. Not as good as Ches I will give you that but ahead of Z and the rest by a lot.

Actually I would put 2019 Methner ahead of 2010 ches for sure. Not 2011 or 2012 ches though.

There should be a little more love for the 70s as well.

Hulst, Serna, Hunt, Salazar, Kissin, Moses, Froelick, Thomas, Clary, Spilsbury, Kimball, Centro sr - all these guys have gold at world cross.

Not to mention Virgin, or Nelson

Just to be clear here 1980's arent getting enough Beyond Reina and Kennedy and the aforementioned Eric Reynolds, you also have John Trautmann, Brad Hudson, Todd Williams, Joe Falcon, Matt Giusto, Mark Coogan and Marc Davis

Shoot the 86 final had Davis, Williams and Kennedy 1,2,3

I think they would hold their own against any decade. a lot of recency bias here.

AM Runner wrote:

Just to be clear here 1980's arent getting enough Beyond Reina and Kennedy and the aforementioned Eric Reynolds, you also have John Trautmann, Brad Hudson, Todd Williams, Joe Falcon, Matt Giusto, Mark Coogan and Marc Davis

Shoot the 86 final had Davis, Williams and Kennedy 1,2,3

I think they would hold their own against any decade. a lot of recency bias here.

Marc Davis ran 14:38 at Woodward Park at the Footlocker Regionals race in 1986 before winning nationals that season.

Newbury Park went 14:26, 14:28, 14:30 on that same course this year at the state meet. Just one data point to compare, but one that heavily favors modern generations.

Funny I would say you just proved my point. Over 30 years ago and only around 10 seconds difference in a competitive race it would be a lot closer.

recency bias? wrote:

AM Runner wrote:

Just to be clear here 1980's arent getting enough Beyond Reina and Kennedy and the aforementioned Eric Reynolds, you also have John Trautmann, Brad Hudson, Todd Williams, Joe Falcon, Matt Giusto, Mark Coogan and Marc Davis

Shoot the 86 final had Davis, Williams and Kennedy 1,2,3

I think they would hold their own against any decade. a lot of recency bias here.

Marc Davis ran 14:38 at Woodward Park at the Footlocker Regionals race in 1986 before winning nationals that season.

Newbury Park went 14:26, 14:28, 14:30 on that same course this year at the state meet. Just one data point to compare, but one that heavily favors modern generations.

I’m going educate you young folks who have zero since of USA high school cross country history.

1974 USA Senior cross country nationals at Crystal Springs over 10k.

40th place was a high school sophomore by the name Eric Hulst. Which I introduced in an earlier post, I just had forgotten about this performance. None of these new runners would place 40th at USA Senior nationals as high school sophomore, none!

oldoldrunner wrote:

recency bias? wrote:

Marc Davis ran 14:38 at Woodward Park at the Footlocker Regionals race in 1986 before winning nationals that season.

Newbury Park went 14:26, 14:28, 14:30 on that same course this year at the state meet. Just one data point to compare, but one that heavily favors modern generations.

I’m going educate you young folks who have zero since of USA high school cross country history.

1974 USA Senior cross country nationals at Crystal Springs over 10k.

40th place was a high school sophomore by the name Eric Hulst. Which I introduced in an earlier post, I just had forgotten about this performance. None of these new runners would place 40th at USA Senior nationals as high school sophomore, none!

http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/1974/aaures.htm

I just had to educate myself, it was his junior year of high school. Still very impressive.

The recency bias is strong.

The guys from the 60s/70s ran their track times on cinder tracks before rabbits were a big thing. I mean, even Pre's HS record. He went 4:25/4:16 leading the whole thing on cinders at some podunk HS meet.

Even comparing the 2000s to today. Solinsky, Ritz, and those guys didn't take shots at records with perfect pacers/great fields. They ran local meets, then hopped in a Penn Relays or had one big race against a bunch of HS kids in California or North Carolina.

It's a different ball game today. Before we even talk about shoes.

oldoldrunner wrote:

Since I ran in high school in the early 70’s this is my 70’s team, Only seven and it hurt me to leave some fellows off of the team. Some sub 8;50 2-milers. No 3200 back then.

By year

1971 Dave Merrick Lincoln Way, Illinois 8:43 indoor 13:38 3-mile

1973 Craig Virgin Lebanon ,Illinois 8:40.9/13:36

1973 Terry Wiiliams Lompoc, California 8:54/14:08 5k

1974 Rich Kimball De La Salle , California 8;46/13:43 World Junior Cross Champ while in high school.

1975 Rudy Chapa Hammond, Indiana 28:32 10k

1976 Eric Hulst 8:44/ 28:55 10k

1979 Jeff Nelson Burbank, California 8:36

I’ve left off super studs like Sharsu, Salazar, Hunt, Beck, Malmo just to name a few.

Some of you have never heard of some of these high runners, but they were super in high school, which this thread is about. I would stack these guys against any generation and they would do very well. I believe they would win,

The real omission here is Bobby Thomas.

recency bias? wrote:

AM Runner wrote:

Just to be clear here 1980's arent getting enough Beyond Reina and Kennedy and the aforementioned Eric Reynolds, you also have John Trautmann, Brad Hudson, Todd Williams, Joe Falcon, Matt Giusto, Mark Coogan and Marc Davis

Shoot the 86 final had Davis, Williams and Kennedy 1,2,3

I think they would hold their own against any decade. a lot of recency bias here.

Marc Davis ran 14:38 at Woodward Park at the Footlocker Regionals race in 1986 before winning nationals that season.

Newbury Park went 14:26, 14:28, 14:30 on that same course this year at the state meet. Just one data point to compare, but one that heavily favors modern generations.

When Davis ran 14:38 at Woodward park, 2nd place was about 25+ seconds back if I remember correctly.

You can't compare a race with 3 guys pushing each other to one where a guy is dominating. Not to mention other factors.

In the same conditions, equipment, etc. Davis is almost certainly better than the current NP trio.

It’s not. Thomas was a 9;06.4 2-miler in high school and did achieve his great status until freshman year in college. We’re taking high school only.

I’ll show more proof in a bit. Look at this list.

oldoldrunner wrote:

not quite as old, but... wrote:

The real omission here is Bobby Thomas.

It’s not. Thomas was a 9;06.4 2-miler in high school and did achieve his great status until freshman year in college. We’re taking high school only.

I’ll show more proof in a bit. Look at this list.

http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/TRACK/TFN/1974tfn.htm

Here is proof that Thomas was a college freshman when he was World Junior Cross Country Champ.

He was very good in high school, but not in the top 50 for the 70’s decade.

I am correct in not naming him to my top seven for my 70’s decade high school team.