"I love the pain of a hard long run": Shelby Houlihan is moving up to the Half/Full Marathon in her return.

An Insider in Nike wrote:

Shelby vs Gidey in Paris. I'm taking Shelby.

How can she run Paris? Her ban rules out the next Olympics as well, doesn’t it?

Why did she cheat as she was a shoo in for the US team, unless she has been cheating all along.

ck3237 wrote:

Why did she cheat as she was a shoo in for the US team, unless she has been cheating all along.

Most likely we'll never *know* when she started doping. Look at her progression and you get an idea:

1500 and 5000 m progression

2013 4:13.64 16:15.85 age 20

2014 4:10.89 16:11.63 age 21

2015 4:09.62 15:49.72 age 22, moved to BTC

2016 4:03.39 15:06.14 age 23

2017 4:06.22 15:00.37 age 24

2018 3:57.34 14:34.45 age 25 5000 m American Record

2019 3:54.99 15:15.50 age 26 1500 m American Record

2020 4:02.37 14:23.92 age 27 5000 m American Record, popped for roids

(and banned from January 2021 - January 2025)

Talk about thick skin. lol

avonaioen wrote:

only wrong if you get caught? wrote:

Ok, so it is inconsistent to decide how you feel about dopers based on your own knowledge of their doping. What they are doing is right or wrong independent of what you happen to know or not know.

lol....are you okay?

Aside from the mild stress of being the only rational person in the room, I'm very well thank you.

Not a lot of 1500/5000m runners with top kicks have become top marathoners and half marathoners.

casual obsever wrote:

ck3237 wrote:

Why did she cheat as she was a shoo in for the US team, unless she has been cheating all along.

Most likely we'll never *know* when she started doping. Look at her progression and you get an idea:

1500 and 5000 m progression

2013 4:13.64 16:15.85 age 20

2014 4:10.89 16:11.63 age 21

2015 4:09.62 15:49.72 age 22, moved to BTC

2016 4:03.39 15:06.14 age 23

2017 4:06.22 15:00.37 age 24

2018 3:57.34 14:34.45 age 25 5000 m American Record

2019 3:54.99 15:15.50 age 26 1500 m American Record

2020 4:02.37 14:23.92 age 27 5000 m American Record, popped for roids

(and banned from January 2021 - January 2025)

A key indicator of cheating is a drastic drop in times. The below time frame is "Highly" suspect and leads to probable doping, not to mention the recent conclusive positive test.

2017 4:06.22 15:00.37 age 24

2018 3:57.34 14:34.45 age 25 5000 m American Record

2019 3:54.99 15:15.50 age 26 1500 m American Record

2020 4:02.37 14:23.92 age 27 5000 m American Record

Those in the know can tell you that the above time improvements are crazy. There's no way SH can maintain this progression without PED's, let alone 4 years from now at longer distances.

Aouita 84 wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

Most likely we'll never *know* when she started doping. Look at her progression and you get an idea:

1500 and 5000 m progression

2013 4:13.64 16:15.85 age 20

2014 4:10.89 16:11.63 age 21

2015 4:09.62 15:49.72 age 22, moved to BTC

2016 4:03.39 15:06.14 age 23

2017 4:06.22 15:00.37 age 24

2018 3:57.34 14:34.45 age 25 5000 m American Record

2019 3:54.99 15:15.50 age 26 1500 m American Record

2020 4:02.37 14:23.92 age 27 5000 m American Record, popped for roids

(and banned from January 2021 - January 2025)

A key indicator of cheating is a drastic drop in times. The below time frame is "Highly" suspect and leads to probable doping, not to mention the recent conclusive positive test.

2017 4:06.22 15:00.37 age 24

2018 3:57.34 14:34.45 age 25 5000 m American Record

2019 3:54.99 15:15.50 age 26 1500 m American Record

2020 4:02.37 14:23.92 age 27 5000 m American Record

Those in the know can tell you that the above time improvements are crazy. There's no way SH can maintain this progression without PED's, let alone 4 years from now at longer distances.

Thats the thing about Shelby's career...

I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but when she tested positive, I didn't think that there was NO indicator of suspicious activity. Her ascent was strange.

Shelby also liked to attribute the success to changes in her diet---but on the day she just ate cheesecake and was having a burrito.

It's weird to go from 15:00 to 14:34 after three years as a pro under that training. Usually you notice huge changes in runners after a year of pro training and they stay around that range for the duration of their career. She went from mid-pack to dominant really quickly.

High hopes wrote: Gidey has just monstered the HM WR, running a minute faster than any other woman in history and nearly four minutes faster than any American. All the tainted pork in America isn't getting Houlihan close to Gidey.

WRONG. Enough tainted pork and Shelby can propel nitrogen from her a$$ to reach a velocity faster than Gidey's.

"A doped up aerobic beast" stealing from the pockets of hard working individuals.......

Great, she gets to train without any testing for years and then come back and dominate longer events. This is why I think all convicted dopers deserve a lifetime ban.

But we all know she isn't a doper; rekrunner has used "data, reason and logic", and "real world knowledge" (whatever that is) to argue so for 100's of pages on other threads.

Greeaaaattt wrote:

Great, she gets to train without any testing for years and then come back and dominate longer events. This is why I think all convicted dopers deserve a lifetime ban.

Banned athletes still get tested and if she were to retire her ban would be paused and then resumed if she were to unretire.

casual obsever wrote:

ck3237 wrote:

Why did she cheat as she was a shoo in for the US team, unless she has been cheating all along.

Most likely we'll never *know* when she started doping. Look at her progression and you get an idea:

1500 and 5000 m progression

2013 4:13.64 16:15.85 age 20

2014 4:10.89 16:11.63 age 21

2015 4:09.62 15:49.72 age 22, moved to BTC

2016 4:03.39 15:06.14 age 23

2017 4:06.22 15:00.37 age 24

2018 3:57.34 14:34.45 age 25 5000 m American Record

2019 3:54.99 15:15.50 age 26 1500 m American Record

2020 4:02.37 14:23.92 age 27 5000 m American Record, popped for roids

(and banned from January 2021 - January 2025)

Her arms and shoulders are too muscular.

another perspective wrote:

seensumn wrote:

Who is running with GDS in GDS Instagram story with the faces covered up?

Not Houlihan. It confirms for me that her sister, Lucia Stafford, and Andrea Seccafien joined. Two new BTC (Canadian) recruits. Dont know why they haven't announced them officially yet. American contingent away at the ekiden so not working out in Portland today.

Is it kosher for SH to be training with NIKE sponsored BTC runners currently?

Portland area runners have seen her training on the NIKE WHQ campus, Berm, Hollister trail, and Forest Park this fall on multiple occasions with VF, EC, GDS, Jager, McG, and, of course, her #1 fan, CF…

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Yes, yes yes wrote:

I've heard this rumored around the team as well when I've joined for an easy run or two over the past year.

Shelby has done 10-mile sessions on the grass in well below 5:20 average on the grass. She's an areobic beast.

How is that impressive? She's a low-14 5K runner, of course she should be able to do that kind of work.

In my my experience, most low-14 5k guys I know would not be able to do that work. If you told a 14:15 guy to go run 10 miles steady, they are probably going to sit right around 5:20 pace. Not well below. A 14:30 guy is probably going to be 5:25 pace. 14:00 guy maybe 5:15 pace

B1G Fan1 wrote:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

How is that impressive? She's a low-14 5K runner, of course she should be able to do that kind of work.

In my my experience, most low-14 5k guys I know would not be able to do that work. If you told a 14:15 guy to go run 10 miles steady, they are probably going to sit right around 5:20 pace. Not well below. A 14:30 guy is probably going to be 5:25 pace. 14:00 guy maybe 5:15 pace

I am a low 14 minute guy and I would probably shoot for 5:30 pace for a 10 mile effort. And that is assuming I am on concrete. If I was on grass, I would probably hope to average 5:40-45 pace for 10 miles.

Armstronglivs wrote:

But we all know she isn't a doper; rekrunner has used "data, reason and logic", and "real world knowledge" (whatever that is) to argue so for 100's of pages on other threads.

It’s unsurprising you are fuddled by the meaning of “knowledge”.

I’m pretty sure what I said in one sentence is that the AIU and the CAS did not call her a “doper”.

rekrunner wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

But we all know she isn't a doper; rekrunner has used "data, reason and logic", and "real world knowledge" (whatever that is) to argue so for 100's of pages on other threads.

It’s unsurprising you are fuddled by the meaning of “knowledge”.

I’m pretty sure what I said in one sentence is that the AIU and the CAS did not call her a “doper”.

They haven't ever called a doper a doper because that would be quite unprofessional but here on LR we call a spade a spade and in this case the spade is a doper.