Makhloufi in his prime could definitely run 10.5 fat, his training seemed very speed oriented with lots of weights. His 3:28 1500 certainly would give hope he could run 13:30. Someone convince me that Makhloufi isn't the most capable of doing this....
This thread is absolutely ridiculous. So many distance runners on here think 10.5 FAT is easily achievable by people who have fast kicks or seemingly fast top-end speed. Jakob? Bekele? Cheptegei? Haile? Not a chance any of these guys are getting anywhere close to 10.5 FAT even with dedicated time to training for the 100m.
jimothy diadora wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
And if I was 6 inches taller I'd be 6'2.
These types of questions are asinine and they have been around for as long as the board has been around. Maybe if we give them a few years of training, some time to bulk up and get stronger.....oh wait....:that wasn't the question....
If some distance runner had run 10.9 in training we would all know about it. LR always overvalues distance runners and undervalues sprinting.
How about the other way? Why couldn't a 10.9 sprinter run 13:30? I mean 13:30 is slooooooooooooow compared to 10.9. Surely the opposite must be true?
Alan
lol cmon man, why would coe/rudisha/whoever be doing 100m time trials from blocks? what good would that do them? did bolt do all out distance runs in training?
coe anchored a gb 4*400 team and trained with sprinters and held the 800 wr for a decade and a half plus, as if he couldn't run sub 11
Forget blocks. Just a flying start 100m. It's not happening.
Overt seems close to breaking 11.0 with his 21.7 200m, but 10.5 is a world away.
Coe's 400m is 46.87. His best 5000m was over 14:00.
Why are we hypothesizing and making things up when we have actual results to make decisions from?
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
jimothy diadora wrote:
lol cmon man, why would coe/rudisha/whoever be doing 100m time trials from blocks? what good would that do them? did bolt do all out distance runs in training?
coe anchored a gb 4*400 team and trained with sprinters and held the 800 wr for a decade and a half plus, as if he couldn't run sub 11
Forget blocks. Just a flying start 100m. It's not happening.
Overt seems close to breaking 11.0 with his 21.7 200m, but 10.5 is a world away.
Coe's 400m is 46.87. His best 5000m was over 14:00.
Why are we hypothesizing and making things up when we have actual results to make decisions from?
Alan
Ovett didn't run 21.7 Ever. It was a misprint in his autobiography.
He ran many 100s and 200s 11.8 - 11.9 and 22.8 - 23
Coe was slightly faster.
10.5 for a 100m requires a lot of specific work and races. To give an idea, I remember Carl Lewis running around 10.4 for a 100m race somewhere early in the season in the mid eighties, Granted the conditions were atrocious and he was probably still lifting heavy in the gym, but he was still the Olympic champ at that time. There are a few great 800m types that could quite possibly run 10.5 with their time totally devoted to 100m training. And it goes far back to Mal Whitfield and Arthur Wint. Snell comes to mind. Coe, Mark Everett, Rudisha and even Nigel Amos. The problem is that they would not be capable of training for 800 while training to run that 10.5. However they could quite possibly run 713.30 for 5,000m while still training for the 800.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Why are we hypothesizing and making things up when we have actual results to make decisions from?
But we don't have 100 meter times for middle or distance guys, what do you mean?
just hypothesizing wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
Why are we hypothesizing and making things up when we have actual results to make decisions from?
But we don't have 100 meter times for middle or distance guys, what do you mean?
Runningart has no idea what kind of athletes the best 800 meter runners in history are. All of them could run in the ballpark of 45-46 second 400m and sub 4 minute mile. Whether they did or not is irrelevant. Many of them could run under 11 for 100m but it is true that most of them probably could not touch 10.5.
Try this wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Yes, this is likely true.
I think he was ranked the number 1 junior 400m sprinter in the UK when he won a national junior xcountry title.
As there are doubts about Harbig because of the Nazi era use of amphetamines, then Ovett is likely the best example of sprint speed and distance endurance.
Ovett was running 11.8 and 22.8
That's a long way from 10.5
But go ahead and pretend he ran 21.7 because of a misprint in his autobiography.
Even if he did run 21.7, a distance runner's 200m time would be double their 100 less 0.3-0.5, as their block technique and power would be poor (they don't have the muscle mass for it).
So even if Ovett could run 21.7 FAT, that would put him at 11.1-11.3 from blocks over 100.
I still know who wrote:
Ohhhhh, sorry I didn't realize you were a human body expert!
Do you have any idea what Jakob's sprinting background is? Do you have any idea if he's ever gone all out in a 100, 200, or 400? Do you know exactly how much capability a 21 year old has to improve his sprinting times when given anywhere from 6 months to multiple years?
Oh, that's right, you don't know any of those things. Centro ran 1:44 bud, if you think Jakob can't touch that, you're delusional.
Lastly, you'd rather train those guys than ANY of the men I listed? Korir has run 44 low. He could probably go sub 10.4-sub10.3 with some dedicated training.
Have you ever seen Jakob run? His mechanics, let alone his speed? There is zero chance of him running sub-11. And very little chance of him running sub-11.5 from blocks. Even sub-12 is a stretch.
Doesn't anyone remember Mo Farah running a celebrity 100m in 2012. The Brownlees ran, a HJer etc. Mo is someone with a good kick for a distance runner.
And he could only manage 12.98.
I don't see Jakob beating Mo by 9m over 100m and therefore not under 12.
wkbvkwjbv wrote:
This thread is absolutely ridiculous. So many distance runners on here think 10.5 FAT is easily achievable by people who have fast kicks or seemingly fast top-end speed. Jakob? Bekele? Cheptegei? Haile? Not a chance any of these guys are getting anywhere close to 10.5 FAT even with dedicated time to training for the 100m.
Exactly. Now we have Makhloufi thrown into the mix - he could "easily" run 10.50 apparently.
Most distance guys have no idea about sprinting. 10.5 is fast. Like Olympic TJ fast.
Peder wrote:
just hypothesizing wrote:
But we don't have 100 meter times for middle or distance guys, what do you mean?
Runningart has no idea what kind of athletes the best 800 meter runners in history are. All of them could run in the ballpark of 45-46 second 400m and sub 4 minute mile. Whether they did or not is irrelevant. Many of them could run under 11 for 100m but it is true that most of them probably could not touch 10.5.
This is the right answer. I suspect that a few too 800 guys would be able to go 10.7-10.75 and 14:15-14:30 at the same time. That's about as close as anyone would get through. If you wanted to anchor on 13:30 I suspect a few 1500 runners could probably hit 10.9-11.05 and 13:30.
Curtis Beach also popped into my head as a guy who ran 10.66 FAT and also was capable of running like 2:22 or something in the 1000. Clearly he couldn't extend that to a fast 5000 but I bet he could have still cracked 15. What an athlete.
wkbvkwjbv wrote:
This thread is absolutely ridiculous. So many distance runners on here think 10.5 FAT is easily achievable by people who have fast kicks or seemingly fast top-end speed.
Literally no one has said that.
wkbvkwjbv wrote:Jakob? Bekele? Cheptegei? Haile? Not a chance any of these guys are getting anywhere close to 10.5 FAT even with dedicated time to training for the 100m.
I'll give it to you that Bekele, Cheptegei, and Haile are all too short and don't even have an 800m mark that I can find, but Jakob could probably throw down something decent.
What do you think Jakob could run if he focused on the 100 for a year?
JewettCutHimOff wrote:
wkbvkwjbv wrote:
This thread is absolutely ridiculous. So many distance runners on here think 10.5 FAT is easily achievable by people who have fast kicks or seemingly fast top-end speed.
Literally no one has said that.
wkbvkwjbv wrote:Jakob? Bekele? Cheptegei? Haile? Not a chance any of these guys are getting anywhere close to 10.5 FAT even with dedicated time to training for the 100m.
I'll give it to you that Bekele, Cheptegei, and Haile are all too short and don't even have an 800m mark that I can find, but Jakob could probably throw down something decent.
What do you think Jakob could run if he focused on the 100 for a year?
Lol this is also the place where lots of people thought Kipchoge could dunk.
JewettCutHimOff wrote:
wkbvkwjbv wrote:
This thread is absolutely ridiculous. So many distance runners on here think 10.5 FAT is easily achievable by people who have fast kicks or seemingly fast top-end speed.
Literally no one has said that.
wkbvkwjbv wrote:Jakob? Bekele? Cheptegei? Haile? Not a chance any of these guys are getting anywhere close to 10.5 FAT even with dedicated time to training for the 100m.
I'll give it to you that Bekele, Cheptegei, and Haile are all too short and don't even have an 800m mark that I can find, but Jakob could probably throw down something decent.
What do you think Jakob could run if he focused on the 100 for a year?
Jakob could probably throw down something decent with a year's training? Like 11.80?
Jakob is an aerobic beast. Speed is not his best asset. The family all concede this.
Coe, Ovett and Rudisha - they would be laughable out of blocks. Rudisha can't even do a standing start at the start of his 800 - stands with same arm and leg forward and stutters before moving forward. I actually watched him run around a 45.5 in 2010, but that is a maxing out 400 time (based on 200 speed) because he trains for 800. A very good sprint 400 runner can do double 200m time + 3.5 seconds, Rudisha might be double + 2.5 as his 200 is comparatively poor and his endurance better. A 100-200m runner like Bolt can get his 200 to double his 100, but someone like Rudisha who would be crap out of blocks and poor drive phase, would be more like double -0.5.
If you give Rudisha 45.0 at his peak, working backwards, that means a 200 of around 21.3 (which in itself seems unlikely) and a 100 of 10.9. Those are likely best case scenarios for him.
Karma Police wrote:
Jakob could probably throw down something decent with a year's training? Like 11.80?
Jakob is an aerobic beast. Speed is not his best asset. The family all concede this.
Coe, Ovett and Rudisha - they would be laughable out of blocks. Rudisha can't even do a standing start at the start of his 800 - stands with same arm and leg forward and stutters before moving forward. I actually watched him run around a 45.5 in 2010, but that is a maxing out 400 time (based on 200 speed) because he trains for 800. A very good sprint 400 runner can do double 200m time + 3.5 seconds, Rudisha might be double + 2.5 as his 200 is comparatively poor and his endurance better. A 100-200m runner like Bolt can get his 200 to double his 100, but someone like Rudisha who would be crap out of blocks and poor drive phase, would be more like double -0.5.
If you give Rudisha 45.0 at his peak, working backwards, that means a 200 of around 21.3 (which in itself seems unlikely) and a 100 of 10.9. Those are likely best case scenarios for him.
hahahahaha 11.80? Jakob Ingebrigtsen? I ran faster than that at the age of 17 and I could barely break 51. You people are unbelievably delusional.
Yeah I get he's good aerobically, he's been running like 100 miles/week since he was 10, and because of that I doubt his family even have any idea if he can sprint.
I ask an honest question about Jakob and you tell me that the 8th fastest 1500 guy of all time could run an 11.8 and then write me two paragraphs about David Rudisha...
Alan Webb would probably come closest, I can see him getting 10.80 from a sprinters start with no blocks. If you gave Saruni some time I think he could get somewhere around 13:45 and 10.70, Brazier somewhere around 13:50 and 10.90, a prime Makhloufi maybe 10.75 and 13:45, Rudisha 10.90 and 13:45, Coe 10.95 and 13:50, Kerr 10.80 and his 13:23 PB, Centro would probably break 11 at his best, I'll give him 10.95. Korir should be the obvious choice but when you look at the way he runs his 400m races, he's more at the bottom of the list. Always uses his 800m strength to his advantage in the final 65 metres. Given the same conditions as the rest of the athletes I named, he could run 10.65 maybe, considerably ahead, but would probably run 13:50 in the 5K all the same. A prime Augustine Choge could run a 10.85. According to some YouTube channel Hocker closed his final 100m in 11.14 in NCAA indoors but that's obviously fake, still giving him the nod for sub 11. A bit surprised that Timothy Cheruiyot isn't in this conversation. I would have thought some idiot would bring up the fact that he went out in 52 and still ran 3:28 last year, but I'm pleased that he's not being talked about. He'd be lucky to break 11.35. He's still got more speed than Jakob though, I'll give him that. Jakob can run 11.8. Ovett's form immediately says no to sub 11, but not in such an extreme way like Jakob Ingebrigtsen, he could go 11.05-11.1 at his prime. Hicham El Guerrouj should be able to run 10.75 so maybe he's the best male 100/5000 runner of all? Lagat wouldn't be too far behind, should run 10.90. Morceli ran his 1:44.7 800m best at 21, 4 years before his prime so I'm guessing he could get 10.90-10.95. 2020 Wightman could go 11.20 and 13:50. Elliot Giles can run sub 11, 10.85, but his aerobic endurance needs some work to get sub 13:30, and combine that with rather stiff form and you'll probably get a 13:55 from him. Longest distance Lewandowski has raced is 2K and he was fine at that, ran 4:57. With a year of work, I can actually see him getting close to 13:30, but he can probably run only 11 flat in the 100. The other Pole, Adam Kzcshot, has really great speed - in the latter stages of a fast 800m race, only showing his extroadinary anaerobic/aerobic conditioning. 11.15 and 13:50 for him. So yeah, I'm done.
TL;DR: no one.
Well we know that Hicham could not run 10.75. I am not sure why you would think he is faster at 100m than Rudisha and Coe. That of course makes no sense. Maybe Hicham could have run 11.00.
10.95 makes sense for Hicham.
JewettCutHimOff wrote:
Karma Police wrote:
Jakob could probably throw down something decent with a year's training? Like 11.80?
Jakob is an aerobic beast. Speed is not his best asset. The family all concede this.
Coe, Ovett and Rudisha - they would be laughable out of blocks. Rudisha can't even do a standing start at the start of his 800 - stands with same arm and leg forward and stutters before moving forward. I actually watched him run around a 45.5 in 2010, but that is a maxing out 400 time (based on 200 speed) because he trains for 800. A very good sprint 400 runner can do double 200m time + 3.5 seconds, Rudisha might be double + 2.5 as his 200 is comparatively poor and his endurance better. A 100-200m runner like Bolt can get his 200 to double his 100, but someone like Rudisha who would be crap out of blocks and poor drive phase, would be more like double -0.5.
If you give Rudisha 45.0 at his peak, working backwards, that means a 200 of around 21.3 (which in itself seems unlikely) and a 100 of 10.9. Those are likely best case scenarios for him.
hahahahaha 11.80? Jakob Ingebrigtsen? I ran faster than that at the age of 17 and I could barely break 51. You people are unbelievably delusional.
Yeah I get he's good aerobically, he's been running like 100 miles/week since he was 10, and because of that I doubt his family even have any idea if he can sprint.
I ask an honest question about Jakob and you tell me that the 8th fastest 1500 guy of all time could run an 11.8 and then write me two paragraphs about David Rudisha...
Mo Farah at his peak was a 12.9 100m runner. maybe Jakob would be faster.
You realise he does no training for top speed. It is all aerobic (some anaerobic).
You ran say 11.7 and 50.5 from the sound of it. With that speed, Jakob would likely run 400 at 4 x his 100m time + 2, so 49-ish. The thing is, for these guys - they run almost as fast closing off an aerobic race as they do fresh from blocks. A 46 second 400m runner would obliterate Jakob in the first 200 of a fresh 400 from blocks.
Rudisha was 400m PR + 5.5 and double it for his 800m. Jakob is obviously more endurance based, so let's give him + 3.5. At 49.0 for 400, that puts him at 1.45, which is probably about right.
Go and look at that Mo Farah celebrity 100m race from 2012, and see how laughable distance runners doing sprints is. There's an Aussie one with strong footballers doing likewise (all of whom did sprints at HS), and the best of them was at 11.1-11.2. Jakob would not get near them.
Maybe someone like Kipketer or Korir could do it but it would take years. Being in 10.5 and 13:30 shape simultaneously is almost certainly impossible.