Hocker can Shush all he wants, but his chance of going are not high

Not what this thread is about, but just watched the race, and I was really surprised at how bad Hocker's race tactics were. He was super boxed in with about 150 to go. Runners at the Olympics are too fast and experienced to let him get out of that. In the US final, the depth is good (obviously) but not the same. There was enough separation in the final 85-90 that he could rely on his kick to get him to safety.

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50/50 he even gets to the final with those tactics.

Questionable1 wrote:

U.S. Champion and doesn't have the qualifying standard. What does that say about middle distance running in the United States. Also the high school 1500 record is faster than the collegiate record.

Gold in Rio, Silver in London.

Not too shabby.

Well Hocker ran a 3:50 indoor mile which is definitely worth a sub 3:35 1500 easy especially considering an indoor track is generally slower with tighter turns. It seems they ought to allow for mile performances if they are faster than their 1500 equivalent if people are going to be that rigid in trying to keep him from running Tokyo.

That 3:50 is some 7 seconds faster than the hs prodigy's record

Kev2 wrote:

Well Hocker ran a 3:50 indoor mile which is definitely worth a sub 3:35 1500 easy especially considering an indoor track is generally slower with tighter turns. It seems they ought to allow for mile performances if they are faster than their 1500 equivalent if people are going to be that rigid in trying to keep him from running Tokyo.

But you don't judge by what it is worth. You can only use what he went by the 1500 en route to the 3:50...I'll bet it was around 3:36.

He also lost that race didn't he?

Kev2 wrote:

Well Hocker ran a 3:50 indoor mile which is definitely worth a sub 3:35 1500 easy especially considering an indoor track is generally slower with tighter turns.

Johnny G ran 3:49 and never broke 3:35.

Track Fan One wrote:

It says that you're stupid beyond belief, we're sending the running Olympic champion, the raining multiple time institute champion, a young running prodigy, and they run this week in oppressive heat, I think it says we have a pretty damn good team look at our 800 team still pretty darn good even though we missed having the world champion on the team. American middle and long distance running has never been better.

Hawkers just getting started, something with has had the longest relevant career of any American little distance runner ever 11 years and counting.

Is English your first language?

I like everyone that made the team - Hocker, Centro, and Nuguse. I also like Engels. He's light-hearted and seems like a fun guy. It's too bad that all of them can't run in Tokyo. The fact is, though, that Engels did not run a smart race. But watching how Hocker is developing, I'm not sure that Engels would have beaten him even if he would have run better from a tactical standpoint. More than likely, Nuguse would have been the one that was the odd man out. If Nuguse was the 4th place finisher, that would have made the team selection a lot tidier and without nearly as many question marks. Nuguse does not have as strong of an argument about using Hocker's IAAF ranking for team inclusion as Engels does. About the comment that I read earlier from someone suggesting that Centro may have eased up to let Hocker win to help him secure the bonus point that would bolster his world ranking: that is complete poppycock. Do you really believe that this was thought out in advance or Centro, in the heat of the race, said to himself, "If I let Cole win he'll get bonus points and he might make the team from his ranking even though we're not running fast enough for him to make the Olympic standard?" Yeah, OK! Centro was flat-out racing and Hocker beat him, It's that simple. I like the team and I think they'll do well in Tokyo. I wouldn't be surprised if all of them make the final. I'm also looking forward to seeing what Engels does over the next few years. He's good and I hope he does well.

wannabepro25 wrote:

Nick Willis was one of Hocker’s haters that got silenced.

I must have missed something. I didn't see anything on Nick's Twitter feed that was nefarious or disparaging of Hocker.

Cooper is an ass wrote:

wannabepro25 wrote:

Nick Willis was one of Hocker’s haters that got silenced.

I must have missed something. I didn't see anything on Nick's Twitter feed that was nefarious or disparaging of Hocker.

You didn't miss anything. Nick correctly picked Hobbs over Hocker at the start of the Trials. Not a huge shock there given his relationship with Hobbs and how Hobbs was running then. Honestly if they time trial I wouldn't be that surprised if Hobbs beat him. Hobbs just didn't run a smart Semi and paid for it. Hocker actually didn't run a smart race here but looks like it's better to be boxed in the middle than it is to be way at the back of a slow race when everyone can kick.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

The policy isn't vague, it's just badly written -- brojo level badly written. The policy is actually simple and straightforward: If the top three have all run the qualifying standard before the Trials, they automatically go. If the top three haven't all run the qualifying standard, then the highest finisher who is on the WA Qualified Athlete list goes. The relative ranking of runners on the WAQA list doesn't matter -- the highest finisher on the list goes.

Now I have more questions.

1) Who determines the qualifying standards for each event? Is that set by each country individually? Or is that an international organization that publishes a standard that all countries must abide by?

2) What is the WA Qualified Athlete list? I never heard of that before.

hobbyjogger18 wrote:

He's currently ranked 42 or 43 I believe, but Engels is ranked 12 in the world currently.

Way to completely misunderstand how qualifying works.

Normal guy that knows grammar wrote:

Track Fan One wrote:

It says that you're stupid beyond belief, we're sending the running Olympic champion, the raining multiple time institute champion, a young running prodigy, and they run this week in oppressive heat, I think it says we have a pretty damn good team look at our 800 team still pretty darn good even though we missed having the world champion on the team. American middle and long distance running has never been better.

Hawkers just getting started, something with has had the longest relevant career of any American little distance runner ever 11 years and counting.

Is English your first language?

It's Google Translate, dude. Don't look for nuance.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

Think About It wrote:

I think their selection policy is a bit vague and doesn’t say that top three eligible at the trials will be selected. I think that is the intention of the policy but not sure it’s set in stone.

The policy isn't vague, it's just badly written -- brojo level badly written. The policy is actually simple and straightforward: If the top three have all run the qualifying standard before the Trials, they automatically go. If the top three haven't all run the qualifying standard, then the highest finisher who is on the WA Qualified Athlete list goes. The relative ranking of runners on the WAQA list doesn't matter -- the highest finisher on the list goes.

It's even simpler. Top three who have either the time standard or WA ranking qualification go to the Olympics.

Indoor?? wrote:

truthman432 wrote:

The US Olympic trials decide the people on the US’s delegation to Tokyo. It doesn’t matter if they get onto the delegation because they still have to meet the Tokyo standard to be even allowed into the olympics. If some miracle happens and cole gets a pass it will be the biggest controversy this event has ever seen. Engels is the rightful man for that 3rd ticket and the people here are just haters and fraudsters.

Your first sentence is correct, and then not so much. Everything is basically designed now so that our Trials take our Top 3 except in a very rate circumstance.

Would abby cooper have gotten in, if she had not wasted as much energy in the 1st round, running the standard, not having the standard and then been more fresh and places top 3?

Also, if a country has 0 athletes with the standard and no athletes in the world rankings, are they not allowed to send anyone?

Jimmy21 wrote:

Indoor?? wrote:

Your first sentence is correct, and then not so much. Everything is basically designed now so that our Trials take our Top 3 except in a very rate circumstance.

Would abby cooper have gotten in, if she had not wasted as much energy in the 1st round, running the standard, not having the standard and then been more fresh and places top 3?

Also, if a country has 0 athletes with the standard and no athletes in the world rankings, are they not allowed to send anyone?

Had Cooper not run the standard in the 1st round and then finished 4th as she did or higher, she would not be going at all because her ranking isn't high enough to qualify. As it stands now, if Schweizer elects to run the 10k only, she could run in the Olympics.

no abby's decision to go for it in standard in the prelim was smart. Unlike Cole, who has raced high level 1500's all season, she only had a 15:13 loss to her name in the 5k, so it was unlikely she would be on the world ranking list. Of course ideally she would have been fresh for the final but coming into the meet without the standard, she did what she had to do to give her the best chance of making the team

and if a country doesn't have anyone with the standard they can send someone, the standard only applies to countries sending more than 1. That's how Aisha praught-leer is going for Jamaica despite having a season's best of like 4:10

fghrunner wrote:

and if a country doesn't have anyone with the standard they can send someone, the standard only applies to countries sending more than 1. That's how Aisha praught-leer is going for Jamaica despite having a season's best of like 4:10

No, Aisha is going because her world ranking qualifies her.

fghrunner wrote:

and if a country doesn't have anyone with the standard they can send someone, the standard only applies to countries sending more than 1. That's how Aisha praught-leer is going for Jamaica despite having a season's best of like 4:10

This is absolutely incorrect.

A country can send one athlete to the Olympics in athletics if they have no qualifier in any event. A country can only send more than one athlete to the Olympics if they have qualifiers (time or ranking) for the individual event.