Anyone besides me getting less impressed by Kessler's 3:34, two guys who can't even make it to NCAAs just ran 3:37

This is absolutely right — everyone screaming about only the shoes and using past times vs. this year’s times doesn’t understand even the most basic principles of experiments. Comparing NCAA times to the past to support the super shoe premise is a useless and factually incorrect premise. True, times are actually faster, but how can you just ignore the fact that they haven’t been over-raced for the past 14 months? There is more than one factor that has changed.

I hate the super shoe clamorers because they refuse to acknowledge that there are other factors at play. They obviously help — saying they are the only or main factor in fast ncaa times this year is moronic.

ImpaIa31 wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Footnote: these two young nobodies are just as fast as Cheptegei has ever been over the 1500. Maybe they are in the wrong event?

But Cheptegei lives rent-free in your head.

Rojo, you didn't have to bring Kessler into this. Poor taste.

Maybe Cheptegei forgot to use the spikes. When he ran the 1500. That must be it. But at least he's as fast as a couple "random nobodies".

Both Hocker and Teare ran a3:50 indoor mile which is superior to a 3:34 1500

In no way does this make me less impressed by the Kessel Run being done in 3 1/2 parsecs.

Times in general were not faster this year.

In 2015, two Oregon guys who didn't make NCAA's or did poorly on Oregon went out and ran 3:36-38 right after the season as well. Alexander even beat Cheserek that day.

3:37 isn't that unexpected for them. Here it is:

Colby Alexander 2015 3:36.56 Portland, OR (USA) 02 JUL 2015 (pr before that year was 3:41)

Edward Cheserek 2015 3:37.08 Portland, OR (USA) 02 JUL 2015

Daniel Winn 2015 3:37.56 Portland, OR (USA) 02 JUL 2015 (pr before that year was 3:42.95)

So, two guys who didn't make NCAA's running 3:36-37 isn't that unusual at this time of year.

Hobbs is faster than our year 2000 US 1500m Olympians! And all our current collegiate runners

Gabe Jennings

Michael Stember

Jason Pyrah

Current collegiates

These guys were some of my running heroes and Hobbs is now faster than these greats. Hobbs is the real deal!

And our collegiates going sub 3:40!! That’s hot stuff! Retitle this thread something positive:

Collegiates not making nattys go 3:37!!

king999 wrote:

I like Engels, he is an honest fun guy, maybe he needs better shoes?

So, Kessler has run less than one second slower than Engels EVER has .

Training with Ron for less than 15 months, and now has run less than .8 slower than Engels has , who has been at a U.S. at an Elite level for years, and he is 27 now.

And still this accomplishment of Hobbs gets paled by some on here? It is insane. I really think a different perspective is needed here, than it must be the shoes.

Like they always say at byu - "There is no age advantage. There is no advantage to having eight extra years of training."

RoJo, why do you keep using examples of slower times to support your opinion that Hobbs’s 3:34 1500m wasn’t that good? Stick to the examples of faster runs please. Also, why are you singling out this child to pick on? Did you not get as much attention as you thought you deserved in HS?

One thing you could say if you believe the shoes take off 2 seconds or whatever from a 1500m is that his 3:40 was only worth 3:42. His 3:34 is still worth, by that account, which is totally unproven, 3:36, and might still be an American junior and hs record.

In other words, how did the shoes make a difference when he dropped from 3:40 to 3:34? They didn't. He had already been wearing them. So, why complain now?

The whole shoe argument is often somewhat comical. Most people wear Dragonflys which have a plate, but it's not carbon. Of course the new vics do have one but we see majority of top performances being run without them. Other companies (Brooks / NB) have carbon plated spikes - Which is why it's interesting seeing their athletes wear Dragonflys. It's interesting to examine results from Vics vs. Dragonflys (especially 800m/1500m) as their performance differences seem to be similar even with different plates and technologies.

The full year of training and no racing is very, very overlooked - Especially for collegiate runners who have lengthy and tight racing schedules year round. I also recall one thread talking about how not focusing on NCAA XC can build world-class track athletes, and it seems to be the case (except Nuguse).

Not sure how Rojo can speak on it "all being the shoes" with Kessler. Everyone and their Mom has been wearing them for the past year, including Rojos favorite runner from Notre Dame.

But I think the biggest aspect of the past year in running is realizing advanced shoe tech is a GOOD thing, not bad at all. Seemingly the only ones complaining are the old timers who did NOT have access to them in their prime years (Rojo)

Awful takes all around. Take a break rojo.

You realize this is just clickbait right? This is how letsrun make money.

i RESPECT jack yearian's 3:37

It's the combination of the plate and foam. Nike has the best foam. It's not surprising.

Still Waiting wrote:

You realize this is just clickbait right? This is how letsrun make money.

I expect more from these guys. Sadly they’ve gone down the lame hot take route.

Do you really like track and field?? You're not impressed with a high school kid who is running faster than college runners? He shattered Alan Webbs high school record!