Nikki Hiltz comes out as transgender/non-binary

has any of the old letsrun crew ever thought "maybe i'll just leave this one alone as it doesn't affect me in any way and there's a chance my spouting out my disdain or jokes about something that is serious to someone could have a harmful effect on them?"

Here's an interesting read: https://aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

birdbeard wrote:

has any of the old letsrun crew ever thought "maybe i'll just leave this one alone as it doesn't affect me in any way and there's a chance my spouting out my disdain or jokes about something that is serious to someone could have a harmful effect on them?"

Yeah, this gives good insight into why people delude themselves into screaming "cancel culture" at everything, though. People can anonymously make their snarky jabs at Nikki Hiltz to display their cruelty here, because being judged for putting their name behind saying that Nikki is a mentally sick individual just looking for attention would be cancel culture to them, not just a case of them being called out for being d!cks.

same as it ever was wrote:

same as it ever was wrote:

I expect the LRC community to be very supportive.

As expected, that hasn’t been the case.

This place has earned its reputation.

Nah you just want to be discriminated against because it makes you feel something. Most posters here have said Nikki can and should go by how Nikki feels while still pointing out the difference between the science and feelings. Listen to the science right?

Runner10287 wrote:

same as it ever was wrote:

As expected, that hasn’t been the case.

This place has earned its reputation.

Nah you just want to be discriminated against because it makes you feel something. Most posters here have said Nikki can and should go by how Nikki feels while still pointing out the difference between the science and feelings. Listen to the science right?

How am I being discriminated against? I’m not, nor am I trying to be.

Many posts have been insulting, some of which deleted.

Yeah--it would be nice to get this conversation back to the issue of fairness and inclusion in women's sports.

I'm not sure that vomiting transphobia all over this message board, whining about email signatures, keeping track, and muttering about how Nikki is attention seeking for posting on instagram the way we all do is productive.

But I do think debating how women's sports should handle gender identity vs. body is important going forward.

If Nikki feels like a man one day and a woman the next (or one of the other 100 or so genders out there), should we call her something different on each of those days?

birdbeard wrote:

has any of the old letsrun crew ever thought "maybe i'll just leave this one alone as it doesn't affect me in any way and there's a chance my spouting out my disdain or jokes about something that is serious to someone could have a harmful effect on them?"

Yes. I concur with you. However, I think part of the issue here is not so much the transgender non binary issue as it is the apparently almost compulsive need for so many to share so much about themselves online.

So when I wake up usually I feel sort of like oh boy I am still tired but I guess I never think of my gender. It is interesting I guess that some do. But If I did I would not feel the need to share it online. So many people think their inner lives have to be shared...

GD wrote:

Here's an interesting read:

https://aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Just read this. I understand the deconstruction of the gender spectrum argument, but I will say that the motivations that the author projected onto non-binary and transgender people are not ones that I have ever heard an ACTUAL non-binary or transgender person say.

There is just to much assuming and guessing in here. When you just take a few minutes and talk to a non-binary person, it is so much more informative than listening to traditional woman or man say it.

That has been what was most helpful to me, a man.

Figuringstuffout wrote:

oh letsrun.. wrote:

you really think this is a serious issue because of...email signatures? That's worse than the sanctity of marriage argument from years ago.

Y'all who are claiming that there is now discrimination and the world as they know it is changing because people are throwing their pronouns up on bios and email signatures, are... extremely fragile. No one is being forced to put their pronouns anywhere. Don't do it if you don't like it.

I'm not fragile at all. I certainly don't care if they do it, but I don't think that people should necessarily need to keep track of it. And they WILL be expected to do so in many settings. And you have NOT explained why the rest of society NEEDS to know someone's (non-biological) gender identity? Really, why?

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. "I certainly don't care if they [trans and cis people] do it [use pronouns in media] But............"

you DO care! thats why you say but! Just admit that you're transphobic! ask yourself why! why does it both you that someone else identifies as a man if they're a woman or vice versa?

I'm glad we didn't have all of this nonsense when I was growing up.

hatehatehatehate wrote:

Figuringstuffout wrote:

I'm not fragile at all. I certainly don't care if they do it, but I don't think that people should necessarily need to keep track of it. And they WILL be expected to do so in many settings. And you have NOT explained why the rest of society NEEDS to know someone's (non-biological) gender identity? Really, why?

Please provide me examples of people being punished/not let off the hook for failing to keep track of someone's preferred pronouns? Examples where it was accidental and not deliberately done wrong in condescension.

I am not taking sides in this part of the argument at all...but the pronoun issue has been much larger than many people realize...Universities in Canada were trying to force professors to use preferred pronouns of students...with the threat of being fired if not. Hence the surge in popularity of Jordan Peterson.

But again, I agree this should not be a discussion about the validity of transgender people, but it should be a discussion on how this topic impacts women's sports.

I would like to hear Nikki's take on competing against people who were born male. I didn't see any mention that she was looking to transition to male...but her comments would be interesting.

oh letsrun.. wrote:

Figuringstuffout wrote:

I'm not fragile at all. I certainly don't care if they do it, but I don't think that people should necessarily need to keep track of it. And they WILL be expected to do so in many settings. And you have NOT explained why the rest of society NEEDS to know someone's (non-biological) gender identity? Really, why?

Perhaps you should ask yourself why YOU feel so strongly about not wanting to know about a person's gender identity. If someone wants to share that part of themselves, why not? People share their race, ethnicity, religion. We "keep track" of people's names, their birthdays etc. She's not asking you to "keep track", but you sound fearful all the same. Why?

I am sure we will see a story where someone accepting of a co-workers life choice and identity will lost their job for misrepresenting co-workers identity on a given day. Like yesterday they identified as a she and today as a he but did not tell anyone to refer to me as a man today please.

Best thing for Nikki or anyone is to be honest with themselves and not worry about what anyone else thinks.

same as it ever was wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

Nah you just want to be discriminated against because it makes you feel something. Most posters here have said Nikki can and should go by how Nikki feels while still pointing out the difference between the science and feelings. Listen to the science right?

How am I being discriminated against? I’m not, nor am I trying to be.

Many posts have been insulting, some of which deleted.

Ok maybe some of the more nasty posts have been deleted.

IDIOTS DUH wrote:

This is obviously an April Fools joke and all of you fell for it. Last year she stated she got married.

That would be pretty awesome if it was, but there are tons of female runners congratulating Nikki on the post. Looks like it isn’t.

I remember hearing about a father in Canada getting put in jail for forbidding his trans child from taking puberty blockers or something.

Are we sure that she's not just making an April Fools joke?

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I’m also curious like the previous poster who all has been crucified for accidentally forgetting someone’s preferred pronouns. That doesn’t seem to be what is happening in reality but instead a scare tactic to wield.