Barry Bonds hit 70 HRs when he was 38....... oh yeah that's right he was doping.
Barry Bonds hit 70 HRs when he was 38....... oh yeah that's right he was doping.
Carloslopes wrote:
Carlos Lopes
Age 37 Olympic marathon gold.
1985 world xcountry champ
Age 38 1985 world record 2:07:12
Carlos Lopes was a world class distance runner in his late 20s. He didn't suddenly break-out at age 37. This isn't a question about whether a 37 year old can be competitive. The question is how can someone who's been competing at a relatively high level for 20 years suddenly improve so much.
RunCzar wrote:
I think all the logical reason add up to 2:20 easy, a time that is not as significant as it used to be. A lot of east africans are under 2:20.
Reasons,
Perfect weather (Huge, we all know most of our best times come in great weather)
Pacers (Some folks need people to "race" with, I for one hate getting stuck in no mans land)
Shoes (low end 1 minute as per Canova, or some saying 3 minutes)
Talent does not go away (Stud HS and maybe just did the wrong distance most of career)
Mid to late 30s (seems to be a great time for a lot of folks to run fast marathon , with all those miles and experience under their bels, Meb, Kipchoge, Shalane, etc. )
Specials fast course (4 mile loop designed to run fast, organized for a pros only race)
This right here. All of these reasons. But, mostly the shoes. My guess is the "3 min" improvement is more like it for the right athlete, so, really, she ran 2:23 and change. Is that so hard to believe?
jhfgdhh wrote:
Carloslopes wrote:
Carlos Lopes
Age 37 Olympic marathon gold.
1985 world xcountry champ
Age 38 1985 world record 2:07:12
Carlos Lopes was a world class distance runner in his late 20s. He didn't suddenly break-out at age 37. This isn't a question about whether a 37 year old can be competitive. The question is how can someone who's been competing at a relatively high level for 20 years suddenly improve so much.
He was but he still wasn't nearly as good as he became. He did actually leap to an even higher level in his mid thirties.
outsider69 wrote:
As Meb said, if you're able to get the training in it's possible. You might need an extra day of recovery here and there, but if you can still get the training in that's necessary you can still run those times. The problem when you get older is obviously that the training gets harder and harder to get done. Sara takes minimal breaks between races because it makes sense that she'll always be able to do the training if she never lets herself slip out of fitness.
The BEST answer ever! Spot ON!
The only downside, which is unavoidable due to age is that you're on "borrowed time". Sara, with the help of Ryan, has figured out how to maximize her fitness in relation to her training and racing. This is a "live by the sword, die by the sword" mentality, and is the ONLY way Sara is going to continue to run well. Unfortunately, the proverbial "Well" is eventually going to run dry and the injury bug will rear its ugly head. As long as Sara stays fit and doesn't slip too far out of shape she'll be able to run as long as her body allows. The big issue is how long can she last. Eventually, she's going to need to recover and take some much-needed downtime. It will be during her next build-up phase where she may experience setbacks and this will be due to the fact that she tries to do too much too soon.
Much credit to her and her crazy great stretch of awesome running.
"Go Run One"
Yo Sara ian wrote:
jhfgdhh wrote:
Carlos Lopes was a world class distance runner in his late 20s. He didn't suddenly break-out at age 37. This isn't a question about whether a 37 year old can be competitive. The question is how can someone who's been competing at a relatively high level for 20 years suddenly improve so much.
He was but he still wasn't nearly as good as he became. He did actually leap to an even higher level in his mid thirties.
Hate to burst your "Portegee" bubble, but Carlos Lopes and Fernando Mamede (former 10,000 WR holder) were two of the most "doped up" runners EVER!
Sorry!
"Go Run One"
If Hall had run 2:26 at NYC in a parallel (non-supershoe) dimension, nobody would notice (other than cutting her down).
Take Sunday's time, add 2 or so minutes for the shoes, 2 minutes for the course, and 2 minutes for NYC winds.
Four big factors: 1) marathon aerobic training builds up from year to year; 2) she finally found her best event; 3) very fast course with male pacers and perfect weather; and 4) the shoes brought her several minutes' advantage over 2015-era shoes. 4% advantage from 2:25 would be 5 minutes and 48 seconds. Maybe she is really a 2:25-2:26 marathoner with fast shoes.
Ol Dirty wrote:
Most of these Kenyan 25 and 30 year olds are really a good ten years older than their fake birth certificates claim. It's really not that crazy to think a 37 year former 1500 runner can improve in longer distances as she ages.
And Kenyans are "clean", right? Runners who fake their birth certificates obviously don't dope. Where have you been the last few years?
Sounds like a plan Stan wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Is that an argument that she couldn't be doping - in a sport with a lot of doping? I missed it.
You're a certified nutjob. THIS site owns you, THIS is your life. Happy?
Well, it is fun to read responses like yours. Even if actual arguments aren't included.
jhfgdhh wrote:
Carloslopes wrote:
Carlos Lopes
Age 37 Olympic marathon gold.
1985 world xcountry champ
Age 38 1985 world record 2:07:12
Carlos Lopes was a world class distance runner in his late 20s. He didn't suddenly break-out at age 37. This isn't a question about whether a 37 year old can be competitive. The question is how can someone who's been competing at a relatively high level for 20 years suddenly improve so much.
Don't ask awkward questions. There might be an elephant in the room. A doped elephant.
xczvzxcv wrote:
Four big factors: 1) marathon aerobic training builds up from year to year; 2) she finally found her best event; 3) very fast course with male pacers and perfect weather; and 4) the shoes brought her several minutes' advantage over 2015-era shoes. 4% advantage from 2:25 would be 5 minutes and 48 seconds. Maybe she is really a 2:25-2:26 marathoner with fast shoes.
And Kipchoge is really only a 2.06 runner.
She is sampling whatever Ryan is taking. case closed.
This is Jim Kiler wrote:
If Hall had run 2:26 at NYC in a parallel (non-supershoe) dimension, nobody would notice (other than cutting her down).
Take Sunday's time, add 2 or so minutes for the shoes, 2 minutes for the course, and 2 minutes for NYC winds.
So we should expect a whole lot of other 2.26 runners in their late 30's to run 2.20 or better. Course, winds and shoes (are they just shoes or a form of motorised transport?) Simple as you say.
Well, she took up the distance late in her career five years ago. She debuted with a 2:31 and has since improved 11 minutes. Huddle, who's a year younger, debuted a year later with a 2:28 but has only improved to 2:26 since. Hall just seems to have an affinity for the distance and training that Huddle doesn't.
We live in a strange world here. In an incredibly competitive environment professional athletes exploit every possible technological advantage - like the shoes, tracks, gym and training aids etc - in order to succeed. But that technology never includes doping.
Les wrote:
Well, she took up the distance late in her career five years ago. She debuted with a 2:31 and has since improved 11 minutes. Huddle, who's a year younger, debuted a year later with a 2:28 but has only improved to 2:26 since. Hall just seems to have an affinity for the distance and training that Huddle doesn't.
Or has something else that Huddle doesn't.
Les wrote:
Well, she took up the distance late in her career five years ago. She debuted with a 2:31 and has since improved 11 minutes. Huddle, who's a year younger, debuted a year later with a 2:28 but has only improved to 2:26 since. Hall just seems to have an affinity for the distance and training that Huddle doesn't.
Her progression does look 'interesting'. Some say "She's naturally a marathoner". well, after a long career of elite running, from 2015 to 2018 she ran SIX marathons going 3:31 to 2:26. Shorter distances during this time were around 2:27-2:30 equivalents. This looks good and in keeping with what we might expect - but hardly an obvious "affinity for the distance". . Then Boom! 2:22 and 2:20. Hmmmmm.
Most logical answer: doping.. You can either fight fire with fire or go home.
RunCzar wrote:
I think all the logical reason add up to 2:20 easy, a time that is not as significant as it used to be. A lot of east africans are under 2:20.
Reasons,
Perfect weather (Huge, we all know most of our best times come in great weather)
Pacers (Some folks need people to "race" with, I for one hate getting stuck in no mans land)
Shoes (low end 1 minute as per Canova, or some saying 3 minutes)
Talent does not go away (Stud HS and maybe just did the wrong distance most of career)
Mid to late 30s (seems to be a great time for a lot of folks to run fast marathon , with all those miles and experience under their bels, Meb, Kipchoge, Shalane, etc. )
Specials fast course (4 mile loop designed to run fast, organized for a pros only race)
LMAO 1-3 minutes. I bet Sara Hall gets 4 minutes PLUS from the shoes. It's ALL the shoes. Kipchoge's improvements were all shoes. That woman who ran 2:14:xx?? 2:14 man! It's shoes. All shoes. Those half marathon times?? Some athletes are getting 2 minutes in the half. Very simple answer. Sara Hall has the right shoes. Not everyone responds the same. Easy way to check. Send her out in flats next time. I bet she doesn't crack 2:25:00. This is exactly like when Rupp ran 3:50 at BU. In that case it's the track, but it's the exact same principle. The roads have just been turned in to the BU track. BOUNCY
Hehir is not that fast when compared to 2:09 guys in the recent past. But he's a good shoe responder.
I'm not really against the shoes, apart from the prices. Maybe they will decrease running injuries and make more consistently healthy runners. That would be a huge boon to the sport. But it's a new thing. I like the idea of shoe-specific races. Open category for major marathons. Flats for championships. Basic spikes only for XC. And the occasional barefoot beach dash, which might pull in crossfitters and maybe a few hipster and crystal gazers.