Jakob is Tokyo 1500m Gold Medalist

extreme-bias wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

Well you need your eyes tested. At 400m Cheruiyot was in 3rd place, and they were in a line. How can he be 1 step (c.2m) behind the first placed pacer when there is another guy between them? He must have been at least 2 strides between the leader which means 3.5-4m. 0.4secs an absolute minimum.

I already admitted I was wrong with the split. Therefor it also was wrong to assume you did the "wrong" split more or less knowingly. Sorry for that.

Still, no interest from you just to clarify some point addressed to you.

Very dishonest acting at all from you.

Thank you for your apology. I respect that. The last post I made criticising your point that 'Tim was only one stride behind the pacer', was made BEFORE I had scrolled down to read all the subsequent comments and your recognition that you had made a mistake. Apologies for that.

I don't quite understand what you are getting at with, "Still, no interest from you just to clarify some point addressed to you". ??

I feel I have addressed all the points/criticisms you made against me in one of my posts last night! I made a list of 8 points, I think.

What in particular have you still got a problem with?

Yes, I am a big fan of Coe, and have clearly analysed his races in great detail (more than most others), but I deny that I am 'dishonest' , as you claim, and have never 'made up stats' to downplay another's performance or upgraded Coe's splits.

As an example, at the time of the Moscow Olympics, it was widely reported that Coe's last 200m in the 1500m final was 24.7. I have analysed it and it was more like 25.0, pretty much the same time as Ovett's last 200m in the 800m final.

T&FN also published Coe's last 200m in the Zurich 1500 from 84 as 25.09 secs, when it was more like 25.6. Those are quite significant discrepencies, and it would be easy for me to accept the faster times, but I don't.

However, by the same token, when it was stated that Aouita's last 100m in Nice 85 was 11.8 secs, I knew straight away that this was impossible, looked into it and realised they had taken his split for the last 90m. I'm not going to sit and stay quiet if I feel a big mistake is being made. Aouita's last 100m turned out to be 13.1, and was eventually listed as so in the IAAF's World Record Progression Book.

I remember I once wrote something like, 'Coe managed to run 1:43.38 at almost 33', to which you vehemently replied that I was being dishonest as he was only 32. Yes, he was 32, but he was a month shy of his 33rd birthday, which is why I added the 'almost'. That is semantics, not dishonesty.

So please enlighten me with all the dishonesty that you feel I have inflicted.

Oh, and I don't appreciate the comments from you suggesting I am like Covett! We have a mutual appreciation of a few runners, but in all other ways my conduct is not the same as his. I tend to avoid discussions that touch on political issues on an athletics thread.

I'm not talking about all those split times.

That 1 month shy of 33 is almost 33 is clear, but this was not the point at the time.

My main point here is the Monaco/Rieti issue, and her I completely sty to my point, that you are dishonest.

You have often clearly stated that the CURRENT Monaco TRACK is faster than other similar CURRENT tracks . When pointed on this, you several times have changed to the comparison to 80s tracks. (I'm still very sceptical if the current tracks are much faster than the ones from decades ago, but that's a different point).

And than the Rieti issue. You have tried to ridicule any stat which CLEARLY gives the conjecture that there was some "magic" with this track. You have never said anything to the fact hat Rieti was a small meeting with not very deep fields (often filled up with local Italian runners). The Rieti middle distance times (and not only they) were something special, at any meet, for decades. To completely deny this is laughable.

To state more or less as a fact (you have relativized this a little bit now I think) that Monaco times are "fishy" in some way, but the Rieti times from 1981 onwards are completely normal is complete nonsense and - yes- dishonest. And it has to do with the fact that both Ovett and especially Coe have set lefetime PBs there (no, I can't read others minds, but this is so obvious).

I know all your stats, you don't have to list them again.

Was Rieti short, "downhill", all the time tailwind? For sure not. The reason for the fast times are probably the same as for Monaco: good overall conditions and so on.

Is there going to be a Tokyo Olympics? When will this be confirmed?

letsdrum wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

Can you direct me to the comment where you made these predictions?

He also predicted that Cheruiyot is done.

Nobody knew what form Tim was in. Predicting his form is about as difficult (and maybe pointless) as predicting Big Mac's.

Making up a 13 second difference on Jakob in several weeks was certainly impressive.

Actually thought this was a response to Coevett, realized it was Coevett himself.

Ignoring reality is apparently something Coevett appreciates: "He's chopped 1 1/2 seconds off his pb in a race he virtually front ran from the gun, and he's going to break the world record next year as well as win gold in Tokyo."

LOL, he did not virtually front ran from the gun. Tim owned him. Jakob were at no point infront. Has Jakob ever beaten Tim?? (Impossible games was not a race, it was a circus act).

cornpop wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Translation - white people can't run as fast as East Africans and when they do my entire sense of self and value comes tumbling down and I have to scream 'RACIST' and 'DOPING' to shut out the real world and preserve my sanity.

You make the EXACT same argument in favor of whites. No African has broken 3:35 clean but Coe could've run 3:27 without drugs. Go fck yourself dude, seriously. All you do is bit‎ch‎ and play the victim.

That's ok. Doping apologist psychos can use as much obscene language as they like against me, as long as they hide behind unregistered names and don't mention the word 'dildo'. That wouod be beyond the pale.

No Nigerian has ran faster than 3:36. Coe could have ran 3:27 without drugs. Lagat and Kiprop ran 3:26.

Maybe you are a rain man, but surely you understood what I meant. Jakob led the rest of the field for 3 laps with no drafting. Stockholm proved again that Tim is only 1/2 second at most ahead of Jakob. If you think Jakib can't make that up when he's still only 19 and clearly at least a second faster than last year, you are deluded.

What does it matter that Jakob has never beaten Tim? If teenage El G ran against peak Morcelli 11 times, what do you think the head to head would be? How many times did Cram lose to Ovett and Coe before he got the better of them?

So please enlighten me with all the dishonesty that you feel I have inflicted.

Oh, and I don't appreciate the comments from you suggesting I am like Covett! We have a mutual appreciation of a few runners, but in all other ways my conduct is not the same as his. I tend to avoid discussions that touch on political issues on an athletics thread.

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

Coevett wrote:

So please enlighten me with all the dishonesty that you feel I have inflicted.

Oh, and I don't appreciate the comments from you suggesting I am like Covett! We have a mutual appreciation of a few runners, but in all other ways my conduct is not the same as his. I tend to avoid discussions that touch on political issues on an athletics thread.

BUILD THE WALL!!!!

Lol. I don’t always agree with what you write or sometimes the way you go about making a point, that is true. And that’s fine. I respect yours and everyone’s views about athletics, even if we don’t always agree.

I agree with you that there is clearly a doping problem in Kenya, but I think you don’t always do yourself a favour with the way you put things across. But that’s your prerogative, and I just keep out of some discussions.

My comments weren’t critical of you specifically, but rather ‘extreme bias’s’ sweeping generalisation that because we agree on some issues, we must agree on all.

Cheers.

Coevett wrote:

Nobody knew what form Tim was in. Predicting his form is about as difficult (and maybe pointless) as predicting Big Mac's.

Making up a 13 second difference on Jakob in several weeks was certainly impressive.

Running 5:01 in a monsoon off of a 55-second first lap at 5,000-feet altitude wasn't even that bad an effort. We also knew he'd only been back with his training group for only a couple weeks beforehand. With nearly 9 weeks to prepare, it was not surprising that he would be in very good shape in Monaco barring injury.

Predicting Tim's form is pretty easy. Barring an injury, he is ready to go and can run 3:28-3:31 with control. I noted that the world feed announcer said during the 1500, that Cheruiyot has been doing some excellent workouts of late (likely he'd heard/observed this from Ouma). I suspect him and the young upstart Keter will run a very fast 1500 this season, maybe in Rome? That is the site of the 1500m WR and would give the group a lot of time to just train ahead of an African if not World record attempt. It looks like Jakob and his brothers are doing Brussels, which might be his chance to win one with Tim not in the press release to run.

Updating this, not seeing any races over 800m in Rome on the timetable here:

https://rome.diamondleague.com/programma-risultati/programma-risultati-roma/

Hopefully, they're looking at Heusden or Ostrava. Not seeing a 1500m men's in Berlin. Those are the big ones left as far as I know.

And I feel like an idiot because Morocco of course is in Africa ha. I mean Kenyan Record, which would be Lagat's 3:26.34, but at that point just go for the 3:26.00. Let's hope on a lower-wind day, a rested Cheruiyot can go through in 54.5-1:50.5, push the lap with Keter possible getting him to the bell in 2:32 and let's see what happens.

Coevett wrote:

Jakob [at Monaco] led the rest of the field for 3 laps with no drafting.

Coevett wrote:

Stockholm proved again that Tim is only 1/2 second at most ahead of Jakob.

Well... Tim soundly beat Jakob after rabbiting for him the last 800m in Stockholm. So, is drafting worth time or not?

Because, if it is worth time, Jakob is well over a second behind him in similar conditions based on Stockholm. If it isn't worth time, Jakob had perfect conditions in Monaco while Tim ran like a middler schooler (pace wise) and still beat him.

Coevett wrote:

If you think Jakib can't make that up when he's still only 19 and clearly at least a second faster than last year, you are deluded.

He might. You said that about this year though. You also say it often and loudly. Maybe if you celebrated him rather than try and shove him down our throats (while bringing down others), people wouldn't give you such a hard time.

macdaddy 1 wrote:

Well... Tim soundly beat Jakob after rabbiting for him the last 800m in Stockholm. So, is drafting worth time or not?

Because, if it is worth time, Jakob is well over a second behind him in similar conditions based on Stockholm. If it isn't worth time, Jakob had perfect conditions in Monaco while Tim ran like a middler schooler (pace wise) and still beat him.

.

Don't get this. Last week you and your hatin buddies were saying that with good pacing Tim should have beat Jakob by 3 seconds. Now that Tim had perfect pacing he couldn't shake off Jakob for even half a second. What's going on?

Another thing. A .2 second difference in the 1500 is most definitely not being soundly beaten. You must be really hate Mr. Jakob.

Obviouslee wrote:

Don't get this. Last week you and your hatin buddies were saying that with good pacing Tim should have beat Jakob by 3 seconds. Now that Tim had perfect pacing he couldn't shake off Jakob for even half a second. What's going on?

Not sure I get this. This week, Tim ran for just the win on a windy day. He was ahead by two-tenths going into the final 100m of the race. He put .3 on Jakob in the last 100. A pretty commanding victory. The week before he ran a wild first lap and then just held Jakob at bay. In an effort where he goes all-out the whole way, it would be unsurprising if he could run 3:27. There would seem to be less room for Jakob to better his PB as it was well-paced.

Obviouslee wrote:

macdaddy 1 wrote:

Well... Tim soundly beat Jakob after rabbiting for him the last 800m in Stockholm. So, is drafting worth time or not?

Because, if it is worth time, Jakob is well over a second behind him in similar conditions based on Stockholm. If it isn't worth time, Jakob had perfect conditions in Monaco while Tim ran like a middler schooler (pace wise) and still beat him.

.

Don't get this. Last week you and your hatin buddies were saying that with good pacing Tim should have beat Jakob by 3 seconds. Now that Tim had perfect pacing he couldn't shake off Jakob for even half a second. What's going on?

Was Jakob’s ability to draft off Cheruiyot on a windy day advantageous or not? If it was, one would expect Cheruiyot to have a bigger margin of victory if that advantage were somehow neutralized. Get it now?

Not that I put much stock in that argument. Timothy & Jakob are the clear #1 & #2 in the world right now and there appears to be less than a second between them, and that’s good enough for me.

Obviouslee wrote:

Another thing. A .2 second difference in the 1500 is most definitely not being soundly beaten. You must be really hate Mr. Jakob.

You seem to have inserted the word “soundly” yourself, and it’s hard to deny he was in fact beaten.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

Obviouslee wrote:

Another thing. A .2 second difference in the 1500 is most definitely not being soundly beaten. You must be really hate Mr. Jakob.

You seem to have inserted the word “soundly” yourself, and it’s hard to deny he was in fact beaten.

My bad, I see it now, but he used it do describe Stockholm where Cheruiyot won by .5 seconds, mostly in the last 100m.