Is Cheruiyot's wire-to-wire 3:29 the best 1500 performance ever?

No, not at all. The best 1500 ever is by far Hicham El Guerrouj versus Bernard Lagat in the Athens Olympic Final in 2004. Final 800 split of 1:46.8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRImmnwryNM

Coevett wrote:

North African Magic wrote:

Too funny - a lot more were also doping back in that era, Ali Saïdi-Sief just happened to get caught.

Though it's a mile - nothing can top the dream mile at the 2001 Bislett Games in Norway. A loaded field where Ali Saïdi-Sief amazingly beat Kenyan's best at the time (Lagat, Ngeny, Rotich) with a sizzling 3:48.23.

A North African performance to be remembered! ?

https://youtu.be/jn6OlocVgTA

Exemplifies what I mean when I say that the period 1995 - 2010 was the weakest era since likely the 1920s.

Last year there were four North Africans in the world 's top forty 1500m runners, and all four were over 30 years of age except the guy in 39th place (25 yo - 3:35.7). Yet this little region of Africa dominated the event in the full throttle EPO era.

So I guess you would also say that when the British dominated the event it was due to doping. I appreciate you acknowledging this finally.

lease wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

A lot of people under estimating Elliott's 3:36,0 Olympic win in 60.

Though Elliott did set a world record of 3:36.0 (eclipsing Jungwirth's record by 2.1 seconds), he broke that in Rome, where he ran 3:35.6.

If you watch the video, you can see that Elliott was really hurtin' on that homestraight in Rome. He was maxed.

Below, a video of that race in Rome. I thought there used to be a vid of the whole race on YT, but this is about the best I can find.

Check Elliott on the homestraight and you can see he was really walking--but he'd buried the other guys (took over with ~750m to go) so it really didn't matter. At about the 2:10 mark of the video there's a few seconds of Jazy, in the all blue of France, who took the silver and said the race was hell. Pretty much everyone in the field "left it on the track" that day.

Mishmash wrote:

So I guess you would also say that when the British dominated the event it was due to doping. I appreciate you acknowledging this finally.

I would acknowledge that if it wasn't for certain facts that might be above your head :

- GB and its colonial cousins Australia and New Zealand had always pretty much dominated middle-distance, along with the USA. The only exceptions being the 1940's and early 50's when recovering from a World War. If you look at the talent coming through now, in 50 years time people might be asking - 'how come Britain never produced any superstars in the 90's and 00's? Well, the answer would obviously be because they didn't take their peas and carrots when it was the healthy thing to do.

-There was no magical doping available to Brits or particularly easy for Brits in the 80's, unlike the EPO era and certain African countries (and the likes of Spain).

- Britain has never produced a middle or long distance bust, whereas Morocco has multiple, even Moroccans and Algerians running for other countries such as Ramzi.

North African runners are dirty, from Aouita onwards - deal with it. And once Big Mac and Iguider retire or get busted, they'll have nobody.

There's a clearer B&W video on YouTube. I wouldn't say he was 'maxed'. He worked hard on his own for two laps in an Olympic final after heats.

That was on cinders, at just turned 22 and clearly still improving.

Conditions matter, as we just saw with Tim in the Impossible Games. Do you honestly think if Tim had been transported back into the 1960 final in Herb Elliott's (literal) shoes, he would have ran 3:29?? More like 3:35. The difference is that Tim has pretty much maxxed out now, whereas a 25 year old Herb Elliott would probably have got close to 3:30 flat on cinders, or El G type times on a modern track/shoes without EPO.

Coevett wrote:

- GB and its colonial cousins Australia and New Zealand had always pretty much dominated middle-distance, along with the USA.

GB hasn't had a single male medalist at 800m/1500m in the Olympics nor World Championships in over 30 years. Don't kid yourself.

Coevett

IF you believe that Coe was clean, that is fine, but it is pretty obvious that he was a doper. The odds are that the great British middle distance runners utilized some combination of blood doping, human growth hormone or anabolic steroids. You do realize that being white does not automatically confer a moral compass? I know, you think only blacks and other minorities are dirty. However, you are living in la la land.

John Macardle wrote:

Coevett wrote:

- GB and its colonial cousins Australia and New Zealand had always pretty much dominated middle-distance, along with the USA.

GB hasn't had a single male medalist at 800m/1500m in the Olympics nor World Championships in over 30 years. Don't kid yourself.

That's because we gave up due to the EPO Africans.

Mishmash wrote:

Coevett

IF you believe that Coe was clean, that is fine, but it is pretty obvious that he was a doper. The odds are that the great British middle distance runners utilized some combination of blood doping, human growth hormone or anabolic steroids. You do realize that being white does not automatically confer a moral compass? I know, you think only blacks and other minorities are dirty. However, you are living in la la land.

It's only obvious to hardcore racists like yourself who refuse to believe a white guy could run as fast clean as doped up.East Africans.

HGH wasn't available in it's modern form until 1983, the very year Aouita made his breakthrough and America suddenly started producing 1:43 black 800m runners.

There is nothing suspicious at all about the progression of the 80's Brits.

Why you can't you ever answer a question rather than repeating the same lame accusations? Why didn't the Brits take EPO with their hgh and the rest in the 90's if three unrelated Brits in the 80's, all with different coaches, were taking elaborate drug cocktails that hadn't even been invented yet? How exactly did Cram geg hold of HGH in 1978 when he was 17 and running a sub 4.mile when hgh wasn't around until 83 (in the USA)?

You think Africans need drugs to run times that white people can run clean. The only racist one here is you.

Stop being an annoying cvnt.

you are mentally unstable wrote:

Stop being an annoying cvnt.

Lol, I'm mentally unstable? Says the troll (using the same language) who is clearly a drug user (not just of peds) and leaves threats and obscene sexual comments frequently here.

All you can do is play the race card and make threats. I've not once here said anything in relation to peds and Tim. I mentioned El G and EPO.

BTW, El G was white, so you may as well as say I'm racist against whites. All I've ever said is that the doping in East Africa is so rampant, and so historically rampant, that sadly all East African performances are suspect, just as all GDR performances are suspect, or all Chinese female performances from the 90's are suspect. You guys are the racists obsessed with the idea (to the point of making threats against those who deny it) that white people are intrinsically inferior at running to a small population of East Africans who apparently have different genetics to the rest of homosapiens. You are the white saviour virtue signalling freaks who are degrading Tim's talent and hard work and reducing it to the fact his ancestors lived at altitude.

60 busts in five years. Get real about the problem.

The Brits did take EPO later. You sound like such a moron. Coe likely blood doped combined with anabolic steroids. So did many of his mates. Cram was a young prodigy. So was Marion Jones. So was Asbel Kiprop. This does not preclude later cheating. I understand that you must feel that blacks are inferior and less noble. What an insecure lad you must be to feel a need to boost whites so incessantly.

If Crammy had blood doped and the rest he would have ran faster than El G.

Your assertions have no evidence whatsoever to back them up. My statements about East Africans, which would be reasonable and standard anywhere else in the athletics community other than the doping apologist bubble of LetsRun, are backed by evidence - for example, 60 Kenyan busts in 5 years.

You clearly hate white people, which is ok by the mods and BroJos here, but I hope to God you never have an opportunity to actually put your hatred into violent deeds.

El Guerrouj is white? Lol

Coevett wrote:

60 busts in five years. Get real about the problem.

Yeah, dopers are being caught in Kenya. Something useful is being done there by the anti-doping authorities.

I am more worried about the dopers not being caught in countries with no busts, and yet having amazing results lately. I'm looking at you Europe.

Shiiiit it's laaaaate. Oh nooo it's a ghost!!! wrote:

Coevett wrote:

60 busts in five years. Get real about the problem.

Yeah, dopers are being caught in Kenya. Something useful is being done there by the anti-doping authorities.

I am more worried about the dopers not being caught in countries with no busts, and yet having amazing results lately. I'm looking at you Europe.

BINGO! ??

Coevett wrote:

Your assertions have no evidence whatsoever to back them up. My statements about East Africans, which would be reasonable and standard anywhere else in the athletics community other than the doping apologist bubble of LetsRun, are backed by evidence - for example, 60 Kenyan busts in 5 years.

Nowhere in the athletics community you will get as much positive feedback to your nonsensical posts as in letsrun.

Coevett wrote:

John Macardle wrote:

GB hasn't had a single male medalist at 800m/1500m in the Olympics nor World Championships in over 30 years. Don't kid yourself.

That's because we gave up due to the EPO Africans.

You: Weve always dominated middle distance

Him: No, you haven’t done squat in 30 years

You: Well, we weren’t even really trying!!!!

Says a lot about the GB mentality...

MichaeI. wrote:

El Guerrouj is white? Lol

He's native Moroccan = Berber = North African = White:

White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.