killian jornet 10.5km 32:25 - 30:21 10k split

Even Kilian has mentioned that he can't hang with the Ugandans, which is why he has never lined up at a World Championship. Have you ever seen where Cheptegei trains? Mountains in rarified air where no step is the same.

Lol. Funniest thing I ever heard. In reality, the Ugandans want no part of Jornet. And they want no part of real mountain running. All they do is the short, smooth (12k) races once a year.

Kenyans, Eritreans (drugged up ones too), and other e. Africans have been trying to beat Jornet in Sierre Zinal for a decade but could not come close. Here is an example to give you and idea where your Ugandan boys would end up in a real mountain race - the Sierre Zinal - Joe Gray & B Dematteis have been really close to the Ugandans for half a decade now, being within a minute of the winner many times in the "world mt running champion" race. Gray & Dematteis have faced Jornet in Sierre Zinal. Guess what? They end up anywhere from 10 minutes to 50 minutes behind Jornet.

What does this mean? The Ugandans would end up roughly in the same place and are worthy only to wash Jornets jockstrap.

Do you know where Jornet trains? He trains in mountains that would make Cheptegei poop in his pants. The "mountains" that Cheptegei trains on would be called a "road" to Jornet.

Until Killian actually runs a half marathon race on the roads (or a full) this is all just going to be speculation and extrapolations. Matt Carpenter never broke 2:19 in the marathon (or even sub 2:38 at Sierre-Zinal)....so how the heck did he run 3:16 at Pikes Peak???!

The sample size of even sub 2:15 marathon runners that have done some of these mountain races is very small. So you have very small numbers. Bad data.

If you don't want to count 2:16:52 as my marathon PR (San Diego Rock n' Roll 2011) fine. Nobody that has run their marathon PR at CIM or Boston could count their time as a PR then either. I ran a 1:04:32 half (2011) and a 2:18:20s at the '12 trials. If you don't think 1:04:32 half means it was possible that I could barely sneak under 2:17 whatever...I don't really care. I consider getting 16th place at Boston in 2015 to be my best marathon performance anyway.

People on here seem to have no idea what they are talking about. I've actually done these races...several multiple times. Yes, I've always lost to Kilian Jornet, but I've seen him hurt and I've seen him get beat by other guys (Dakota Jones beat him twice and I doubt Dakota could even touch a sub 2:22 marathon...same thing with a Francois D'hane btw). Sometimes the 2:25 guy beats the 2:15 guy....but more often than not the 2:15 guy is going to crush the 2:30 guy. Just like I could suspect the 2:05 guy is going to do pretty well against the 2:15 guy. You need bigger numbers to draw a more accurate correlation though.

You want to compare small sample sizes? Well I could say I've beat Max King (2:14 marathoner), Ryan Bak (2:14) and Pat Smyth (2:13 marathoner?) multiple times as well as some 2:12 guys. That's only a few people though in certain races! But then again I've also lost to guys like Dakota and Francois and many others who are more like 2:25ish marathoners. I've been chicked too. I've had horrible melt down races in the mountains. It happens. But back to Kilian.

But at the end of the day the sample size is too small. Not many sub 2:10 marathon guys are going to want to move to the trail-mountain scene...most likely they probably don't even know about it!

This is a very niche part of running that has more in common with Ski Mountaineering (also a very niche sport) than anything else. There are much bigger financial rewards than most seem to think (on here) and very lucrative travel and lifestyle perks though. Which (along with a lack of actual real drug testing) is also why it is not clean.

Matt Carpenters progression at Pikes would be like a 2:15 Marathoner all of a sudden running sub-2:05 ... It’s odd to see such a huge jump (and yet he never came close to that time pre & post). But Matt did hold records for fastest marathon at 14k’ & 17k’ .... And basically lived on Pikes Peak ... Also his Leadville time hasn’t been broken so the guy apparently can handle high altitudes like no other.

Has anyone ever thought Matt cheated at Pikes Peak? Yes it’s his backyard, but it’s outlier compared to everything else he did. Was there a timing mat at the top and along the course?

How do we spell Canaday, eh?

Is it Canada, eh?

Or is it Canaday?

This list is actually quite interesting when we see all these historical results. So Matt's second best Pikes Peak marathon time (besides his record year) was a 3:33 in all those years? He consistently ran around 3:40 it appears. But then that one year ('93) he ran a 3:16? Last year Kilian ran his amazing 2:26 CR at Sierre-Zinal 2 weeks prior to Pikes Peak. I think some people thought he could run close to 3:16 at Pikes, and he took it out hard like he was going after it. Nobody in that field could hang with him by mile 2-3. But in my opinion he had no chance at a sub 3:20. I think even if it wasn't a warm day (which it was), at best Kilian maybe could have gone 3:23-3:24 or so. In '93 Matt Carpenter only ran 2:40 at Sierre-Zinal 2 weeks prior to his 3:16 at Pikes. Again, as this history of results shows, his best time at Pikes leading into that year had only been a 3:38 at the time. The 3:16 was the only time he ever cracked 3:30.

Radio Ga Ga wrote:

https://historical.pikespeakmarathon.org/find.asp?Last=Carpenter&Mi=%20&First=Matt

Matt Carpenters progression at Pikes would be like a 2:15 Marathoner all of a sudden running sub-2:05 ... It’s odd to see such a huge jump (and yet he never came close to that time pre & post). But Matt did hold records for fastest marathon at 14k’ & 17k’ .... And basically lived on Pikes Peak ... Also his Leadville time hasn’t been broken so the guy apparently can handle high altitudes like no other.

Was the course changed at Pikes Peak that year?

Spot on. Well said.

You do realize both Gray and Bernard didn't really specialize in longer races like SZ right? The Ugandans that won the World champs in 2018 would absolutely clean Jornet clock in the championship classic distances( and SZ), thats why he doesn't come. I believe Gray would also beat Jornet in the classic distances being that they've only raced 1 time at that distance with Gray winning, ahead of Jornet by a few mins in an ascent race. Comparing SZ to wmrc is apples to oranges. Jornet is amazing with the longer stuff and Gray and Bernard are amazing at the classic to marathon distance mountain stuff.

Gray shown range for even short XC then also won in super steep mountain events. Thats tough transition . also won some fast runnable courses in trail as well. Bernard has this range and boths step outside of their comfort zone. Can't say same for jornet yet. Sage also has stepped outside of comfort zone. I would say its easier for Jornet to win these longer technical events than it would be for him to show up with the top american guys and Ugandans, Eritrean at wmrc. We have seen many greats come to the wmrc and get eaten alive. Don't downplay how tough that field can be! Many top German guys in my country have ran wmrc whom are better downhillers than jornet and they were not close to winning with the east africans coming now. Steidl in his day was much stronger range in mountain than jornet and still no chance with the African. We have also Abraham who runs the classic distances in Germany. Dominates many events but against those top ugandans and even Gray of usa he stood no chance. Its a tough scene with too many variability for racing. Hard to compare the African to jornet because jornet doesn't come to their world ever.

What in the world are you even talking about Wet Coast/jeljo/maritalians?

The Ugandans are never coming to Jornet's world because they know they have no chance with him at SZ, or Zegama, or WS, or UTMB. They run a very narrow selection of trail races. It is them that avoid 99% of mountain running.

I don't know as much about Gray but I do enough that he most certainly does not race marathon length. He's never even done Pikes. Only done ascent. He's done up to SZ as far as I can see and that's only 31 km. He's gotten destroyed by Jornet at THE classic mountain race. The SZ is the NYC marathon of mountain running.

I dont think you understand the Ugandans level if talent. They could easily give up track and field pursuits and road racing and win SZ if they chose to. They won't make as much in mountain therefore we don't sees them often in our races. Gray has done some longer races but yes I haven't seen in marathon really. He did win some great long asceng races in Europe. SZ is not "the" classic. Not many top athletes from wmrc show up let alone the top guys from uganda. I said Gray and jornet only raced one time at the classic distance, with Gray winning by large. In my opinion too many variety in mountain, it needs less so that more distinction

I understand Ugandan talent very well. Kenyans and Eritreans can't keep up with Jornet and Ugandans will certainly not either. Lol. Yes, how much money have the Ugandans made? I would be willing to bet you Jornet has 100x that.

Sure they would become best. If Jornet wanted to focus on 100meters he could easily get gold but he's not interested. If Jornet wanted to become the worlds greatest athlete and win decathlon gold then he would but he;s not interested. If he wanted to beat Phelps in swimming he could easily do that if he focused. I could go on.

Troll award of the year.

Power Troll.

Funny how KJ will train on a track, will train on the roads, will time-trial odd distances but will never race on a track, race on a road or have someone independent time him on a measured course.

He obviously doesn't have a problem with running on the track or road. Guess he has too much reputation to lose by going up against competition on a legitimately measured and timed standard length race. In his mind he can't risk disappointing those fanbois, who by the way would always claim that he is a sub4 miler and a 2:07 marathoner even if he barely breaks 5 and 2:30 in a real race.

KJ, your fans will always have true believer goggles on no matter how slow you really are.

S. Canaday wrote:

I've beat Max King (2:14 marathoner), Ryan Bak (2:14) and Pat Smyth (2:13 marathoner?) multiple times as well as some 2:12 guys.

And you beated Anton Krupicka at Speedgoat 50k.

I'm sick of seeing the "if 2:0X guys just cared enough to show up, they'd crush it" argument at this point. Maybe they would, but until it actually happens are we just not allowed to be fans of MUT running? Every thread on trail running turns until this same pointless argument.

Also, the argument about doping is a bit goofy knowing what's actually been going on in the pro road running scene in spite of extensive testing.

Ho Hum wrote:

I'm sick of seeing the "if 2:0X guys just cared enough to show up, they'd crush it" argument at this point. Maybe they would, but until it actually happens are we just not allowed to be fans of MUT running? Every thread on trail running turns until this same pointless argument.

Also, the argument about doping is a bit goofy knowing what's actually been going on in the pro road running scene in spite of extensive testing.

Trail running rules, but real runners would destroy Kilian in running race. (not counting some boulder infested jog-slog)

#whocare