Caster Semenya is delusional: "I can do anything from 100m to a marathon..I call myself 'supernatural'."

Caster has quite clearly treated multiple female athletes unfairly. By extension, if you care about track and field at all, she has slapped you across the face. She has been allowed to make a mockery of the sport by enablers such as you. You should be ashamed to even spout your nonsensical opinions in a public forum. Have you no decency or sense of fair play?

666666 wrote:

I can also do anything from 100m to a marathon.

12.7 to 2:52

I am supernatural!

Do your powers also stem from the possession of a big set of balls?

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Nice. But it's still not saying that she's a man.

Clinically, it still does address some differences that exist.

The reality is that her genitalia were ambiguous.

It is not uncommon for 5-ARD individuals to be raised as females. Ergo, as far as she was concerned, she was female.

But because the genitalia were ambiguous as a result of the ARD, she's still not a man.

Yes, it is not uncommon for males with 5-ARD to be raised as females initially, for the reasons I detailed at length upthread. But as I previously pointed out, all around the world, the vast majority of 5-ARD males who are mis-sexed as females at birth recognize, and are recognized by others, as males during/after puberty. Because once their testicles start pumping out all that testosterone at adult male levels and their bodies change and masculinize accordingly, it becomes unmistakably apparent that they are in fact males. Males with a DSD, but males all the same.

The big exception to this general rule is 5-ARD males who've become accustomed to participating in female sports and have been successful enough at it to be considered to have a chance at cleaning up as females in elite international competition - and bringing glory to their countries of origin and getting lucrative sponsorships to boot.

Nowadays, such persons tend to come from countries where the political and economic situation provides an incentive for these athletes to continue to claim to be female into adulthood. And where lack of access to good or regular medical care provides them with a convenient excuse for claiming they had no idea that there was anything different about them and anomalous about their development. A claim that can only be countenanced if you truly believe that people in poor and less developed countries never ever noticed menarche and menstruation and and are utterly clueless about all the differences in female and male bodies that become glaringly evident during and after puberty.

Your view that males with ambiguous genitalia due to birth defects can't possibly be men is really unkind to these individuals. Do you think males who've lost their external genitalia due to war injuries, other kinds of accidents or disease also can't be men? I know guys who got their groins blasted or lost their lower bodies in various conflicts and post-war minefields who would beg to differ. So would Ernest Hemingway, who wrote a novel about a WW1 vet with serious groin injuries and had his "manhood" questioned as a result.

Erik Schinegger, who as Erika was the athlete I most avidly admired when I was a child skiing nut, was born not just with ambiguous external genitalia - his were absent because a DSD caused them to be misplaced within his abdominal cavity. According to you Schinegger, like Semenya, "is still not a man." I think he would disagree. As would the daughter he fathered.

Nice!

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Nice. But it's still not saying that she's a man.

. . .

But because the genitalia were ambiguous as a result of the ARD, she's still not a man.

If Semenya being born with ambiguous-looking genitalia means Semenya "is still not a man" as you claim, what is it about Semenya's physiology that makes Semenya a woman? Because in a sexually dimorphic species such as homo sapiens those are the only two options. The term "hermaphrodite" (and the concepts behind it) comes from mythology, not from medicine, science or the historical record.

Contrary to what the inaccurate term "intersex" suggests, all humans are either male or female. And adult males are men, adult females are women. There is no third, fourth, fifth human sex; nor is there any "in between" human sex, as DSD educators and activists and the physicians and scientists who treat and study their conditions will attest.

This clip of Semenya filmed during the period when Semenya was taking female birth control pills to suppress testosterone makes me really wonder how you and so many others can say with straight faces that Semenya is a woman:

I watched your video.

Gave me a good look at the features of Semenya.

I saw three crucial things (technically four but the discernible breasts could have been from the diminished testosterone or increased estrogen, or both):

1. She haa markedly high cheekbones. This is not a common feature on a man.

2. There is no noticeable Adam's apple when she speaks

3. Her lower body below the shorts line defines like a fit woman. A fit man would have more visible striations in the shin/calf area.

How do you explain these?

Even if Semenya had the ability to run a decent marathon, say 2:30-ish, she likely never will actually do it. From what I've seen she just doesn't have the work ethic. I mean, not even close. Take into account the inevitable injuries that would be visited upon her ill-suited frame/gait and it simply isn't going to happen.

How do you explain the fact that Semenya has never subjected herself to a public chromosome test to prove to the world that she is a woman?

If Semenya really was a female, with XX sex chromosomes, Semenya would have proudly provided this critical piece of evidence. Semenya could have taken it to the court and proved categorically that Semenya was a female. Semenya wouldn’t have taken the testosterone lowering meds she took one year. Semenya would be eligible to compete. Semenya would be accepted by all athletes and officials as a female.

The only reason Semenya hasn’t done this is because Semenya is not an XX female.

If it’s a birth defect, there should be a category in the special Olympics for this birth defect.

World Athletics need to close the female category to XX females only. They need to be the world leaders in this. Females need their own category for a reason, to provide them with a fair competition amongst themselves.

Not having a penis does not make you a female. 30 trillion cells in the body have to have XX chromosomes to be a female.

They really that stupid wrote:

Not having a penis does not make you a female. 30 trillion cells in the body have to have XX chromosomes to be a female.

Yup. As is demonstrated by this video from mid-March of this year that shows Semenya running the 200 against a field of females and bragging of being "supernatural" and having superior biomechanics, training and drive.

The four-year-old I watched this with said, "One of them runners sure is not like the others!"

This is not only evident during the race, but afterwards. From around 1:20 the differences in the physiques of the females compared to Semenya is really stark.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Yes. That is exactly what I think.

If Eliud Kipchoge had made that comment, Robert would be very careful in what he said for 2 reasons:

1. Johnson can't beat Kipchoge at any distance.

2. Johnson sees Semenya as a freak and thereby subhuman.

He objectifies her as nothing and therefore makes her an easy target for his depravity.

He would not risk it with Kipchoge.

under the impression wrote:

So you think if Kipchoge or any other runner made a similar comment about 100 meter to marathon range, rojo would not call them out? I'm 100% confident that he would call them out for such delusional thinking.

1000000000% facts. If this was Galen Rupp saying this or any of his favs he wouldn’t dare speak against them. Thing would probably end up on the front homepage praising them.

Yeah reporting in a pretty harsh way. Why go out and call someone who has more global medals than any mf on this thread delusional. You forget speed is something that can be dangerous in longer races. You forget she already won the SA champs over Dom Scott. That by no means indicates that she can go win a medal in the marathon but who knows? No one until an attempt is made that’s why you run the race. Stop being haters and let people make bold comments. It makes this dry ass sport feel so much more alive. Get over it. You same guys are the ones hating on every single great performance complaining about “that guys doped up” “there’s no way she’s clean” enjoy the mf sport or go watch and study up on something else.

Yes, hon. 1:52 for 880y..

BTW, 1:54 is not fast

Maybe in Sacramento it is though.

In the podcast, Rojo says "She's the only woman in the world who could win a diamond league 400m and medal at worlds in the 1500m" That might be true, but we have to remember that she medalled in a world champs where the opening 700 was 2:11 (5min mile pace), and the final 800 was 1:57. That seems like the 800m specialists dream 1500m scenario. She was not the 3rd best 1500m runner in that race. Its unclear how many women who can run a 50.x 400m can also run a 4:03 1500m. I'm not sure it's impossible for a cis woman to do that. A 4:03 1500m is not that great on the world stage.

Intersex and trans bodies mostly don't require medication - they're usually perfectly healthy the way they are. Demanding T levels are dropped to fit with arbitrary IAAF rules is completely authoritarian.

You were born dyadic and cisgender and therefore nobody "has an opinion" about you. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

Should you be allowed to increase T if severely deficient? Everyone would say it needs consultation with a doctor and only if it's medically appropriate. You also can choose to reject medication because you have autonomy over your body.

As for an 'open' category not everyone wants to out themselves as trans or intersex when they enter a competition. Imagine a woman not wanting to share that they're trans or intersex - it would massively put them off becoming involved in track and field.

There's no protection of women's sport if some women are excluded - it's the opposite. Those making pseudo-feminist arguments abount this are protecting 99% of women opposed to the 100% that feminists should.

appleswan wrote:

As for an 'open' category not everyone wants to out themselves as trans or intersex when they enter a competition. Imagine a woman not wanting to share that they're trans or intersex - it would massively put them off becoming involved in track and field.

There's no protection of women's sport if some women are excluded - it's the opposite. Those making pseudo-feminist arguments abount this are protecting 99% of women opposed to the 100% that feminists should.

So basically if someone says they're a woman, they should be able to compete for money and medals in women's events without question or restriction?

Right.....

As a track coach, I want to protect the actual females that run for me. You, and people like you, are quick to spout the "some women are excluded" nonsense while being absolutely unable to define what a women is. If I were a feminist activist, I'm not sure that I would be too pleased to discover that men actually make better women than true females do.

that's a man.