Not Elite wrote:
Here's the truth:
19 min. guys don't know this board exists.
17 min. guys envy the thought of conversing with 13 min. on this board?
15 min. guys think they're 13 min. guys.
13 min. guys look on this board for their name.
12 min. guys don't speak english. (except one from the outback)
+2
Both the OP and a lot of posters on this thread are making the mistake of considering what is elite to the elite. You're dropping off 99% of the population, making a new distribution curve, and calling that your final representation of 5k prowess. You know, congratulating yourself by saying how much you aren't that great is actually pretty lowly regarded by Socrates. Anyway, the point of the matter is that a 15 flat 5k will win well over 99% of 5ks in the St. Louis metro region. Within a 50 mile radius of where I am sitting, I bet there are no more than 10 runners who can run 4:48 / mile for 3.1 miles. That is elite.
Whats the difference between a 14 min 5kr and a 15 min 5kr once their careers are over.....NOT A DA** THING, because it wont get you any further in life then the other and nobody outside the running community gives a care lol
Sorry white boy wrote:
junior wrote:I think you are a twit. For curiosity sake, what have you run for 5k? I can guarentee that I have run a lot quicker than you have and i have the utmost respect for people running 15,16,17,18+ mins. You know why? because they have a passion, a desire and the will to run, an element that is forsaken by many "elites" . Too many people forget why they began to run in the first place, forget the fun they had when they were kids. The guys who are running the times u term "not elite"...they run because they love it, they arent looking for the kit deal, the money or the fame. You should respect these guys, I dont hear Kenny B dissin u....
No more to add! This is the post of the year.
It might have already won post of the year given it was posted in 2005.
I believe that many 15 minute guys don't think they are elite but are actually insecure about their place in the sport. They are admired by slowpokes like myself (never broken 17, other prs only worth 16 minute 5k times) and at the NAIA level are often all-American, but yet they are too slow to meet elite development club standards for shoe and travel support which is a hallmark of being elite. I actually kind of feel for them and their position.
sc runner wrote:
I believe that many 15 minute guys don't think they are elite but are actually insecure about their place in the sport. They are admired by slowpokes like myself (never broken 17, other prs only worth 16 minute 5k times) and at the NAIA level are often all-American, but yet they are too slow to meet elite development club standards for shoe and travel support which is a hallmark of being elite. I actually kind of feel for them and their position.
This is a classic thread.
This (above) kind of nails it.
Interestingly there is a contingent of well known posters here who have run just under 15 and they don't give you the time of day if you haven't reached that threshold. It's like they chum up to the elites and ignore everyone else as slow.
One dude in particular, who doesn't post here much anymore, but runs up and down the internet waving the one time he broke 15, stoking up the fan girls and boys who call him "world class." And if you haven't hit 14:59.x or faster, well there's no/little difference between 15:05 and 17:20 and 22:30.
First, most of us in the 15-1530 range get our butts kicked in races where we do good so we know we're not cream of the crop.
however, on the split side of that coin is that it seems like most of us in the 15-1530 range are the less talented guys who don't make any money or win a ton of stuff but still follow brutal training schedules that mimic elite plans, doing hard workouts and long runs week in and week out but we get lumped in with the 'fit neighbor' of yours who runs a couple times a week and does the 5k in 17 and change.
i personally empathize with both sides. we have no right to be indignant or get high and mighty but we also want our work to be respected as we put so much more into it than some random guy on a treadmill or weekend warrior
Hey, 17 is definitely not a "fit neighbor" that runs a few times a week. You seriously know a lot of people that can run a few times a week (like 15-20 miles a week) and can run 17? I don't, even at one of the largest universities in the nation. The guys on our Division 1 team, yes, but aside from them...no!Adding to the thread, maybe 15 minute guys just feel self-conscious about being good local runners but not being able to run for a living? Its not just 15 minute guys...I know slower than 15 guys that think they are all that!
dafastestogre wrote:
First, most of us in the 15-1530 range get our butts kicked in races where we do good so we know we're not cream of the crop.
however, on the split side of that coin is that it seems like most of us in the 15-1530 range are the less talented guys who don't make any money or win a ton of stuff but still follow brutal training schedules that mimic elite plans, doing hard workouts and long runs week in and week out but we get lumped in with the 'fit neighbor' of yours who runs a couple times a week and does the 5k in 17 and change.
i personally empathize with both sides. we have no right to be indignant or get high and mighty but we also want our work to be respected as we put so much more into it than some random guy on a treadmill or weekend warrior
certainly there is a context to be seen while considering "elite" as it pertains to runners and fast times. Would elite be .2% of the population? Is .5% too much? Obviously this should changes when the scope of population changes.
Global Elite & National Elite
Regional Elite - if I can travel about a populated radius of say 150 miles and win most 5k races in 15 minutes, then I should be deemed "regionally elite". It is simply decided by the context.
I thought once that I was going to be an elite runner...I've run a couple seconds under 15 minutes for 5K and a tad under 25 for 8K in cross, and there was a time when I thought I was something special...then I started marathoning and that went out the window quickly. I once got 15 minutes of fame in the running spotlight at US marathon championships as I was trying to keep up with the top group of females (who ultimately outran me) as I tried to break 2:30. I put in a lot of work to get where I was and I was blessed with some talent as well...the cockyness came from winning some races, some various accolades, and it was swallowed hard when I got my tail handed to me a large group of women (and not even kenyan or ethiopian women at that).
I run 16 low. What do I think? xD
................... wrote:
Not Elite wrote:No, my personal times are not relevant to this thread. The initial statement was considering why the 15 min. 5k category of runner often times considers themselves elites, often times looking down upon slower runners. You don't often see true elite runners look down on "slower" non elite runners, but you do often see 15 min. guys looking down on others. If you haven't experienced that then I think you're in a minority.And whats wrong with watching poker around the clock?
Dude, you see 18 min guys acting elite, and 22min guys acting elite (lining up at the front of the field when they'll lose by 7-8 min), you see golfers who shoot 75 every day acting elite and ones that shoot 90. But not most of them. You only notice the people who are jerks, not the ones who put their head down and just run. My PR is 15:12, I don't think I'm elite but I win more local races than I lose, and I was very competitive in college at 800m, under 1:50 but still don't consider that elite. But you wouldn't recognize me as someone who thinks they belong at the Trials. I don't think you are a 13:11 guy because there are only a handful of them, and as its been mentioned, they aren't wasting their time with the likes of me. Just like a middle of the road PGA player wouldn't come on a golf board and complain about the guy who shot 82 yesterday and is talking like he won the US Open.
My guess is you either squandered a lot of talent or just didn't have it to begin with (my problem) and are bitter about something. But no I don't believe 15 min guys have any worse attitude than any other pace group.
You've run under 1:50 but don't think you have any talent??
It takes an extraordinary amount of talent to run under 1:50 for 800m.
There are two factors to blame for this:
1) The 15 min 5K guy himself with a need to project insecurities.
2) The general running public who feeds into the narcissism through their ignorance of what true elite runners are capable of.
haha, I know a 15-flat 5k guy who was fairly talented and should have moved up in distance (I saw him run a low-1:07 hilly HM in the middle of winter), and he ended up quitting running entirely because he couldn't handle losing in any race a local no-name 14-low Kenyan showed up.
The Kenyans knew of him (he more or less ran every event) and would literally run 50m ahead of him at race start and then hold the same pace as him, running it as a tempo and pi ssing him off simultaneously.
mgm wrote:
There are two factors to blame for this:
1) The 15 min 5K guy himself with a need to project insecurities.
2) The general running public who feeds into the narcissism through their ignorance of what true elite runners are capable of.
This captures some truth of the matter.
Former 15 min type, now a 17 min age grouper still getting a kick out of it (sort of).
Never considered myself elite, although at times felt consumed by it all. Hey, just passionate about running. It was good enough to place okay at local-regional type races and even go to some national championships on the roads and XC. Nowhere near competitive at those levels, but it was a thrill to be there and give it a go. No shame in that I hope. Generally disregarded if not ignored by elite type coaches/clubs.
The sport has changed immensely since those days. The times I ran consistently then would seem to win most road races unless the professional runners were there. In other words, 16 is the new 15 for 5K. Anyone else notice that?
And at the other end, hobby jogging?!!! This thread muses at the 19, 17 min 5K runners. Have you followed the 30, 28, 26, 24, 22? To these folks a 20:30 is huge. But oddly, if you post a 17 or 16 and they having nothing to say, as if dumbstruck. This is where the mass of running is at now. Charity 5K runs, "half marys," and 4 and 5 hour marathons. I miss the good old days.
OP was probably a 16 minute guy who was mad when a 15 minute guy showed up and beat him at the Turkey Trot.
They think theyre elite because the hobby joggrs view them as elites
Consider This wrote:
OP was probably a 16 minute guy who was mad when a 15 minute guy showed up and beat him at the Turkey Trot.
This could be! A long time ago, in the cretaceous era of internet message board evolution and on a different forum, I remember this one guy who was probably a high 16s- to mid 17s min 5K guy, but he read every damn book out there. He'd quote the books on end, but sometimes (if not often), other message boarders would say, nahh, try this. This cat got pretty fed up with that and started going after the 15 min guys, saying that he knew more because he read more.
There is could be something to that, but imo, he was more of a reader and less of a runner.
signed,
one of those 15 min guys
Running is a sport, like basketball, and football. People critisizing athletes and what they do is a part of that. The difference between a decent runner talking negatively about a pro, and a basketball fan dissing Lebron is that it's a miracle that someone even knows who the runner is. Track is a sport that barely gains any attention. Personally, I think it needs all the attention it can get, even if its a JV runner dissing a sub 13 guy.
Dean-O wrote:
This place always cracks me up. A bunch of 15 min guys who either a)say they suck or b) say everyone else sucks.
Here's the thing: it takes god given talent to run a 15:00 5k. I don't care how untalented you think you are, but you're faster than 99.99% of the population. I run with folks who are young, in good shape, run 60+ mpw, and can't break 18:00 for the 5k. They simply have no speed.
.
I second your point. You see lots of misguided posters claim that they have no talent and and yet can run a15 5k or 1:55 800 or 4: 30 mile etc. They just don't know much about the world of running or pretend to not know?!
A15 5k is elite...relative to the general population of runners. It's relative. A 13:30 5k guy is probably not thought of as elite by some when he's compared to world champion caliber runners. But it's just silly to not think of such a runner as elite.