I would put Rochester and RIT at 5(a)+5(b) together. I know that they beat them in the Geneseo meet, but look at the results. You have a 5 second spread between the 2-5 runner on the Rochester side, then you have a 23 second spread between the 2-5 runners. I will give RIT a ton of props and say they are on the right path. But when you get into Regionals, that 23 second gap will place a lot more runners and places. I did not go to either school for the record.
Some women's team scores from Paul Short:
Top 10 Atlantic Region
St. Lawrence - 37
TCNJ - 71
Ithaca - 102
Plattsburgh - 113
Cortland - 147
Oneonta - 151
Rowan - 157
Hamilton - 177
New Paltz - 268
Stevens - 312
Top 20 D3
Johns Hopkins (#2) - 56
St. Lawrence (#10) - 76
TCNJ (#17) - 153
Dickinson(#28) - 179
Ithaca (#20) - 222
Plattsburgh (#24) - 230
Haverford (NR) - 253
Cortland (#35) - 293
Gettysburg - 300
Oneonta - 303
Rowan - 315
Hamilton - 361
Susquehanna - 368
Messiah (#32) - 382
Allegheny - 392
Swarthmore - 437
Lynchburg - 469
Elizabethtown - 479
New Paltz - 571
Muhlenberg - 580
RIT did not run Kurvach, who has been 4th or 5th thus far this season. That I imagine would cut that gap significantly.
That said, when are they going to decide to run a full squad?
enough talk about rit, what do you guys think about new paltz avenging their 4 point loss to clarkson last year at regionals
There is no way that New Paltz can beat Clarkson this year. With Alex Benway leading the charge for them how can they lose? New Platz has one decent runner and then falls off at their number 2. Clarkson is stacked compared to the hawks. Look for Oswego and Buff State to upset them as well.
new paltz is gonna have their first man in way before clarkson's first man and in a big meet like regionals that is gonna be huge, like 40-50 spots. You basing clarkson's times off of st lawrence's course which is deff short
Clarkbar wrote:
There is no way that New Paltz can beat Clarkson this year. With Alex Benway leading the charge for them how can they lose? New Platz has one decent runner and then falls off at their number 2. Clarkson is stacked compared to the hawks. Look for Oswego and Buff State to upset them as well.
you think buff state is going to upset someone? that is amusing...
How can you not assume that they wont get the best of New Paltz? they are led by Brockport transfer Charlie Higgens and followed closely by Tim Fargino. They have 2 good guys up top and new Paltz only has the one. I think itl be a good race between Clarkson, New Paltz, Buff State, and Oswego. I can only imagine the excitement they are feeling right now.
Another shot at predictions for regionals:
1. Cortland
2. Geneseo
3. SLU
4. NYU
5. Plattsburgh
6. RIT
7. Rochester
8. Ithaca
9. Fredonia
10.Hamilton
A few things. I think that right now NYU is running better than SLU and RIT is running a bit better than Plattsburgh, but come regionals I believe that SLU and Plattsburgh will get their stuff together and pull through for 3rd and 5th. Also, I acknowledge that Geneseo ran well, but they're still not better than Cortland. I think that Lee Berube's time on Geneseo's course is about equivalent to Ramsey's time on SLU's course (25:11 and 25:08 respectively) and that puts all of Cortland's guys within 20 seconds of Berube (again, I think that Greenlaw and others will come to play at regionals. Cortland guys usually do). Also, if we add 30-35 seconds to Cortland's Paul Short times, a pretty reasonable conversion, they put 5 ahead of Geneseo's 3rd at Letchworth.
Fredonia is falling apart (I feel ashamed to have put them at 5th a month ago), as is TCNJ.
Clarkbar wrote:
How can you not assume that they wont get the best of New Paltz? they are led by Brockport transfer Charlie Higgens and followed closely by Tim Fargino. They have 2 good guys up top and new Paltz only has the one.
Charlie Higgins is a prime example of how distance runners die at Buffalo State. He was decent in cross at Brockport, but very good in the steeple, only to run far below par at Buffalo State in everything.
Big Will wrote:
Another shot at predictions for regionals:
1. Cortland
2. Geneseo
3. SLU
4. NYU
5. Plattsburgh
6. RIT
7. Rochester
8. Ithaca
9. Fredonia
10.Hamilton
A few things. I think that right now NYU is running better than SLU and RIT is running a bit better than Plattsburgh, but come regionals I believe that SLU and Plattsburgh will get their stuff together and pull through for 3rd and 5th. Also, I acknowledge that Geneseo ran well, but they're still not better than Cortland. I think that Lee Berube's time on Geneseo's course is about equivalent to Ramsey's time on SLU's course (25:11 and 25:08 respectively) and that puts all of Cortland's guys within 20 seconds of Berube (again, I think that Greenlaw and others will come to play at regionals. Cortland guys usually do). Also, if we add 30-35 seconds to Cortland's Paul Short times, a pretty reasonable conversion, they put 5 ahead of Geneseo's 3rd at Letchworth.
Fredonia is falling apart (I feel ashamed to have put them at 5th a month ago), as is TCNJ.
One very slight amendment. I'm going to put RPI in at 10th rather than Hamilton, based on their Conn College results. They might be good enough to beat Fredonia, but I'm not too sure about that yet.
Clarkbar wrote:
I think [it'll] be a good race [among] Clarkson, New Paltz, Buff State, and Oswego. I can only imagine the excitement they are feeling right now.
I know this was intended humorously, but I would really suggest keeping an eye on Oswego. They seem to be doing some things right and making progress.
And, though I've said this before, I still think the Hamilton can be a top-ten team at Regionals. Having to score only four guys (essentially) is a tremendous advantage.
Meanwhile, I just don't know *what's* going on at TCNJ. I don't think they've had a coaching change--hard to understand. A wave on injuries or illness, maybe?
Speaking of which, I'm surprised not to have heard that teams are getting hit by the flu.
There hasn't been a coaching change at TCNJ. And it seems like most of their returners have been running, so it doesn't seem to be injuries. It looks like they are just not in shape.
TCNJ women seem pretty decent though.
2. 65 RIT (26:12.5 131:02.4)
========================================
1 6 Jared Burdick 25:49.1
2 11 Mike Brindak 26:11.0
3 12 Mike Hardbarger 26:13.5
4 13 Nick Meeker 26:14.3
5 23 Nick Lowe 26:34.5
6 ( 26) Zach Miller 26:51.7
7 ( 33) William Craig 27:06.9
3. 74 Rochester (26:10.6 130:52.9)
========================================
1 4 Brian Lang 25:34.9
2 14 Craig Baumgartner 26:17.6
3 17 Jonathan Pinto 26:18.5
4 18 James Vavra 26:19.5
5 21 Daniel Lane 26:22.4
6 ( 27) Jason Zayac 26:54.4
7 ( 39) Jacob Tutmaher 27:23.8
"getting beat by a team but having a better average time for the race is kinda like losing the election but winning the popular vote."
It is kinda weird how they always sit at least one person out. All it does it make it harder for coaches to know where to place them in a poll. Seems to me that people should just assume they get held out due to injury and that the team is running at the strength that it has to give.
Bulldozer wrote:
2. 65 RIT (26:12.5 131:02.4)
========================================
1 6 Jared Burdick 25:49.1
2 11 Mike Brindak 26:11.0
3 12 Mike Hardbarger 26:13.5
4 13 Nick Meeker 26:14.3
5 23 Nick Lowe 26:34.5
6 ( 26) Zach Miller 26:51.7
7 ( 33) William Craig 27:06.9
3. 74 Rochester (26:10.6 130:52.9)
========================================
1 4 Brian Lang 25:34.9
2 14 Craig Baumgartner 26:17.6
3 17 Jonathan Pinto 26:18.5
4 18 James Vavra 26:19.5
5 21 Daniel Lane 26:22.4
6 ( 27) Jason Zayac 26:54.4
7 ( 39) Jacob Tutmaher 27:23.8
"getting beat by a team but having a better average time for the race is kinda like losing the election but winning the popular vote."
True if they only win by a couple of points, but RIT had 4 in before UR had 2, hence the larger point gap.
I'm not sure TCNJ ran that bad at Paul Short. It is obvious that Bocchino had an off race, but the others in the top 7 ran pretty well compared to last years results. Waite 26:50 in 2008 and 26:13 this year. Herschman 27:22 compared to 26:31 this year. Roos and Boyle both dropped time as well. Sparshatt is a freshmen and for his first effort at 8k I would say he ran pretty well (26:34). Yersak there number 2 returner from last year did not run and it doesn't look like he has ran yet this season. The last couple of years we have seen TCNJ graduate a bunch of runners that have been on their national teams for a good three years, and it looks like they they could be in a "rebuilding" year. I'm not saying that this TCNJ squad is going to challenge any of the top teams in the region but I would not be surprised to see them sneak into the 5th spot by regionals(possibly causing the region to only get 4 teams).
Clarkbar wrote:
How can you not assume that they wont get the best of New Paltz? they are led by Brockport transfer Charlie Higgens and followed closely by Tim Fargino. They have 2 good guys up top and new Paltz only has the one. I think itl be a good race between Clarkson, New Paltz, Buff State, and Oswego. I can only imagine the excitement they are feeling right now.
They have 3 guys who are barely under 29, but not one under 28:30, plus their 4-5 guys are too far back. maybe they can upset clarkson, but i dont think oswego is within catching distance and it may be close between new paltz. until they can have charlie, tim, and james, under 28, with their 4-5 guys under 29 or under 2840, they wont be beating too many people. oswego is definitely a team to look out for to do things though, keep a close watch on them. they are going to surprise some teams come regionals
Big Will wrote:
62 Sean Curry, Fr 24:41 4:59
Pretty impressive freshman from Cortland at Paul Short.
And...
porcupine wrote:
Peter Kosgei reaches another level higher..........is he the best DIII runner of all time ?
Better than Nick Symmonds? Just one example.
Karl Paranya for another.
New rankings, looks like the coaches listened to you boneheads, RIT in 5th, Plattsburgh 6th...
RIT deserves to be in the mix. I don't think that they're better than Plattsburgh, but they should be 6th.
I think that it's good that SLU's women are finally getting some respect with essentially tying for first in the poll. I think that they will win regionals by 5-10 points if they continue running well and Ludington comes to race.