Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

agip wrote:

Rigged for Hillary wrote:

Trump has fired the Secretary of the Navy after publicly defying a direct order from the Commander-in-Chief.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/navy-secretary-richard-spencer-fired-dispute-over-discipline-seal-n1090306

KAG2020

a year from now

Spencer will be remembered as the hero, Trump as the traitorous thug.

Once again, trump goes against the armed forces.

Agreed. I will say though that unless the President gives an order that is unlawful, his orders must be followed. I'm sure he knew he was going to be fired for this, so he was standing up for a principle, but Trump had every right to fire him here and pretty much had to.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

So, I guess now in addition to being outrageously stupid, you are also a liar. I didn't think you were a liar before. You clearly are supporting and defending Trump. How can you possibly say you are not supporting him? Liar!

Not really. It just took me ten seconds to get under your skin. Proves I am smarter than you. ?

No. You are stupid and a liar.

agip wrote:

Ciro wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50427636

Failed policy.

they'll never vote for a Democrat tho. It would be in their minds like going to a gay bar or getting purple hair. Just not in the realm of possibility.

Maybe they won't show up to vote I suppose.

That article was about farming in Montana. Can't say they'll never vote for a Democrat.

Montana currently was a Governor and a US Senator that are Democrats.

Also, there is a lot of farming in Iowa, who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

Trump could lose both of those states in 2020.

Flagpole wrote:

I will say though that unless the President gives an order that is unlawful, his orders must be followed. I'm sure he knew he was going to be fired for this, so he was standing up for a principle, but Trump had every right to fire him here and pretty much had to.

Well, I disagree with FP on some stuff and with DJT on a *lot* of stuff, but have to agree here. The President is CinC.

X-Runner wrote:

agip wrote:

they'll never vote for a Democrat tho. It would be in their minds like going to a gay bar or getting purple hair. Just not in the realm of possibility.

Maybe they won't show up to vote I suppose.

That article was about farming in Montana. Can't say they'll never vote for a Democrat.

Montana currently was a Governor and a US Senator that are Democrats.

Also, there is a lot of farming in Iowa, who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

Trump could lose both of those states in 2020.

fair enough, but farmers are some of the most republican people of all.

Just so happens that there are enough dems in MO and IA to overcome the hard right farmer vote.

I'm making this up and can't back it with facts, but you have seen those polling maps...vast seas of rural red in places like MO...with some tiny blue urban islands.

Farmers and miners are the most right wing jobs, I've read.

The Fokus wrote:

Falsehood wrote:

The falsehood is that Bush was the “better” candidate. He lost the popular vote. And he needed the republican SCOTUS to “secure” the win.

Gore would have won if HE were a better candidate. Two posters....or perhaps the same one....who cannot read.

He didn't lose because of the impeachment of Bill Clinton which was my only point of entrance into this discussion. Clinton's impeachment is a narrative that some Dems want to champion because they want to see Trump impeached. Since we've already heard from the witnesses involved in the impeachment, dragging it out further can only serve to hurt the Dems and could give Trump a victory in 2020 unless the Dems somehow discover a better candidate than what we currently see.

You are incorrect. The Clinton impeachment had enough of an effect for Bush to win via the Supreme Court.

kibitzer wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

I will say though that unless the President gives an order that is unlawful, his orders must be followed. I'm sure he knew he was going to be fired for this, so he was standing up for a principle, but Trump had every right to fire him here and pretty much had to.

Well, I disagree with FP on some stuff and with DJT on a *lot* of stuff, but have to agree here. The President is CinC.

It's a simple chain of command thing. I am a rule follower and so, something like this simply must be followed. Oddly enough, this is the same reason I am adamantly against Trump. He doesn't respect the rule of law.

kibitzer wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

I will say though that unless the President gives an order that is unlawful, his orders must be followed. I'm sure he knew he was going to be fired for this, so he was standing up for a principle, but Trump had every right to fire him here and pretty much had to.

Well, I disagree with FP on some stuff and with DJT on a *lot* of stuff, but have to agree here. The President is CinC.

FYI: Trump is not a CinC with unlimited powers.

agip wrote:

X-Runner wrote:

That article was about farming in Montana. Can't say they'll never vote for a Democrat.

Montana currently was a Governor and a US Senator that are Democrats.

Also, there is a lot of farming in Iowa, who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

Trump could lose both of those states in 2020.

fair enough, but farmers are some of the most republican people of all.

Just so happens that there are enough dems in MO and IA to overcome the hard right farmer vote.

I'm making this up and can't back it with facts, but you have seen those polling maps...vast seas of rural red in places like MO...with some tiny blue urban islands.

Farmers and miners are the most right wing jobs, I've read.

The farm areas of Montanta voted for Trump. The larger city areas voted democrat and outnumbered the farm areas. That gap is growing more towards democrats. The farm areas will still tend towards republicans.

UR wrong.. wrote:

The Fokus wrote:

Gore would have won if HE were a better candidate. Two posters....or perhaps the same one....who cannot read.

He didn't lose because of the impeachment of Bill Clinton which was my only point of entrance into this discussion. Clinton's impeachment is a narrative that some Dems want to champion because they want to see Trump impeached. Since we've already heard from the witnesses involved in the impeachment, dragging it out further can only serve to hurt the Dems and could give Trump a victory in 2020 unless the Dems somehow discover a better candidate than what we currently see.

You are incorrect. The Clinton impeachment had enough of an effect for Bush to win via the Supreme Court.

Yeah, this is correct. The election was SO close that almost anything that could have broken Gore's way would have resulted in him being elected. The Clinton scandal affected the election. Gore would have won without it.

CinC wrote:

kibitzer wrote:

Well, I disagree with FP on some stuff and with DJT on a *lot* of stuff, but have to agree here. The President is CinC.

FYI: Trump is not a CinC with unlimited powers.

Yes, but he didn't abuse his powers here. Not a good decision in my opinion, but not an abuse of power.

agip wrote:

but you have seen those polling maps...vast seas of rural red in places like MO...with some tiny blue urban islands.

Farmers and miners are the most right wing jobs, I've read.

The vast seas of red are mostly empty land masses while tiny blue urban islands have a much higher concentrated population.

Cows, horses and undocumented workers don't vote.

People who farm and mine aren't growing as a population as technology advances.

Look at the electoral votes of the reliably Republican heartland that make a national map look so red:

MT 3

ID 4

UT 6

WY 3

ND 3

SD 3

NE 5

KS 6

OK 7

AR 6

MO 10

That adds up to 56 while California has 55 electoral votes.

Add Alaska's huge land mass for 3 more electoral votes and a big splotch of red.

Iowa is a swing state that has lost an electoral vote from 7 when Obama won it to 6 with Trump.

Arizona's 11 electoral votes will probably be blue next time.

North Carolina's 15 may be blue, too.

Florida's 29 are up for grabs.

Texas has 38 electoral votes and is trending purple in the near future with the metro areas of Austin, Houston, San Antonio, El Paso and Dallas growing as liberals move in form other states.

Georgia is in danger, too.

I haven't even mentioned PA, MI, WI and OH that are not reliably red.

SC, AL, MS, LA, TN, KT and WV are another pretty reliably red 56 electoral votes.

So, Trump has 112 electoral votes pretty much locked up, but will have to lie and cheat like hell to get the other 158 needed to win again.

not disgreeing with what you are saying in this post.

But I'm saying that it's unlikely many white farmers such as those in the photograph of that news story will vote for the pro-choice, pro-government, pro-truth, urban based, pro-gun control, pro-diversity democratic party. That's my only point.

Flagpole wrote:

CinC wrote:

FYI: Trump is not a CinC with unlimited powers.

Yes, but he didn't abuse his powers here. Not a good decision in my opinion, but not an abuse of power.

Trump abuse the rule of law by meddling in a military legal case.

In his pardon statement, the president said, "When our soldiers have to fight for our country, I want to give them the confidence to fight." By that, he meant he wanted to give them the confidence to commit war crimes and not worry that they will be held liable. Last month, Trump tweeted, “we train our boys to be killing machines, then prosecute them when they kill!”

In other words, Trump will pardon anyone in the military who is a republican who intentionally murders a civilian.

Rule of Law wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Yes, but he didn't abuse his powers here. Not a good decision in my opinion, but not an abuse of power.

Trump abuse the rule of law by meddling in a military legal case.

In his pardon statement, the president said, "When our soldiers have to fight for our country, I want to give them the confidence to fight." By that, he meant he wanted to give them the confidence to commit war crimes and not worry that they will be held liable. Last month, Trump tweeted, “we train our boys to be killing machines, then prosecute them when they kill!”

In other words, Trump will pardon anyone in the military who is a republican who intentionally murders a civilian.

https://www.salon.com/2019/11/25/trump-pardons-and-emboldens-war-criminals-and-the-corruption-of-trumpism-spreads/

According to the original Navy prosecutor Chris Czaplak, "Chief Gallagher decided to act like the monster the terrorists accuse us of being. He handed ISIS propaganda manna from heaven. His actions are everything ISIS says we are."

Dear Mr. President:

It has been the extreme honor of a lifetime to stand alongside the men and women of the Navy and Marine Corps team in the protection of the American people and the values we all hold dear.

Together we have made great strides over the past two years, strengthening the foundation of our readiness, and bolstering our constellation of allies and partners, to respond wherever needed with the honor and professionalism that have marked our force for the past 244 years.

Now more than ever, the United States Navy and Marine Corps stands ready and firm in every part of the globe, fueled at all times by our greatest resource – the men and women who wear the uniform. Many of them will soon miss their Thanksgiving dinners at home so that they can continue the watch beyond the curve of the horizon. They and their families are, and will forever be, my personal heroes.

As Secretary of the Navy, one of the most important responsibilities I have to our people is to maintain good order and discipline throughout the ranks. I regard this as deadly serious business. The lives of our Sailors, Marines and civilian teammates quite literally depend on the professional execution of our many missions, and they also depend on the ongoing faith and support of the people we serve and the allies we serve alongside.

The rule of law is what sets us apart from our adversaries. Good order and discipline is what has enabled our victory against foreign tyranny time and again, from Captain Lawrence's famous order "Don't Give up the Ship," to the discipline and determination that propelled our flag to the highest point of Iwo Jima. The Constitution, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice, are the shields that set us apart, and the beacons that protect us all. Through my Title Ten Authority, I have strived to ensure our proceedings are fair, transparent and consistent, from the newest recruit to the Flag and General Officer level.

Unfortunately, it has become apparent that in this respect, I no longer share the same understanding with the Commander in Chief who appointed me, in regards to the key principle of good order and discipline. I cannot in good conscience obey an order that I believe violates the sacred oath I took in the presence of my family, my flag and my faith to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

The President deserves and should expect a Secretary of the Navy who is aligned with his vision for the future of our force generation and sustainment. Therefore, with pride in the achievements we've shared, and everlasting faith in the continued service and fidelity of the finest Sailors, Marines and civilian teammates on earth, I hereby acknowledge my termination as United States Secretary of the Navy, to be effective immediately.

I will forever be grateful for every opportunity to have served, from my days as a Marine, to the extreme honor of serving as the 76th Secretary of the Navy. My wife Polly and I stand in appreciation and admiration of the patriots who today forge the next link in the unbroken chain of our Navy and Marine Corps, and we urge all Americans to keep them, and their families, in their hearts and prayers through this holiday season and beyond.

Thank you once again for the opportunity to serve.

Respectfully yours,

Richard V. Spencer

agip wrote:

Rule of Law wrote:

Trump abuse the rule of law by meddling in a military legal case.

In his pardon statement, the president said, "When our soldiers have to fight for our country, I want to give them the confidence to fight." By that, he meant he wanted to give them the confidence to commit war crimes and not worry that they will be held liable. Last month, Trump tweeted, “we train our boys to be killing machines, then prosecute them when they kill!”

In other words, Trump will pardon anyone in the military who is a republican who intentionally murders a civilian.

https://www.salon.com/2019/11/25/trump-pardons-and-emboldens-war-criminals-and-the-corruption-of-trumpism-spreads/

According to the original Navy prosecutor Chris Czaplak, "Chief Gallagher decided to act like the monster the terrorists accuse us of being. He handed ISIS propaganda manna from heaven. His actions are everything ISIS says we are."

There were four Navy seals involved in the war crimes. Trump ONLY pardoned Gallagher. Gallagher appeared on Fox News and launched into a tirade attacking the former Secretary of the Navy. Trump has now made it acceptable for rank and file to go after their leaders, but ONLY IF they are Trump supporters. You can figure out for yourself the negative impact that will have on the military leader.

Pardon 1 out of 4 wrote:

agip wrote:

According to the original Navy prosecutor Chris Czaplak, "Chief Gallagher decided to act like the monster the terrorists accuse us of being. He handed ISIS propaganda manna from heaven. His actions are everything ISIS says we are."

There were four Navy seals involved in the war crimes. Trump ONLY pardoned Gallagher. Gallagher appeared on Fox News and launched into a tirade attacking the former Secretary of the Navy. Trump has now made it acceptable for rank and file to go after their leaders, but ONLY IF they are Trump supporters. You can figure out for yourself the negative impact that will have on the military leader.

trump is trying to take away 100% of the soft power of the US. He wants us to be a country that imposes power only via might rather than ideals and honor. he has absolutely no conception of US ideals.

Trump has tried to damage the intel community, the military, trust in voting, trust in news organization...it's just a wholesale war on american institutions and ideals. Putin's man is doing his work well.

With the full support of white evangelicals. Whatever are they thinking.

The best people...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39826934